Why pick on cables ?

[Redcarmoose]

At a guess, a lot more than 1/2.

Who here has made any assertions about “joy”? Strawman!

Modern science can and does prove a difference, if there is one. If someone makes a performance improvement claim but cannot prove it and science demonstrates there isn’t a performance improvement, then yes that is fraud.

Science has been able to measure pace before IEMs even existed and it’s been a free, built-in feature of DAWs for years.

Of course there’s “no way to measure Stage in an IEM” because there is no Stage in an IEM. Do you also think it’s also a flaw of science that we can’t measure the 0-100kph acceleration time of an IEM, how happy the IEM is or how many pixies it contains? Timbre is mainly a function of the balance of harmonics and again, we can measure measure that and have been able to for decades.

I can hear/perceive all those things too and all sorts of other differences with cables, for example the difference between Mozart and Motorheard. That obviously doesn’t mean the cables are the cause of those things/differences!

Who is saying that differences don’t exist? The very best that we can come up with is highly accurate measurements of those differences but obviously, only when those things actually exist. IE. We can’t measure how many pixies a cable has, because pixies don’t exist!

We are standing our ground, you a making up a completely false “ground” and arguing that (strawman)! And again, we can measure if those changes exist, if they do in fact exist!

No it can’t! Stop making nonsense claims unless you have reliable evidence/proof!

Duh, we’ve avoided ever mentioning that truth because it has never been true, we’ve mentioned it numerous times as being a lie though. We absolutely can measure tone, decay, we can’t measure “styles of timbre” because that’s just BS you’ve made-up and we can’t measure soundstage because that doesn’t exist, it’s just a perception.

Jitter does have zero correlation to sound quality. Why is jitter on the DAC clock meaningful?

So again, why is that meaningful? How can your perception be caused by the phase noise out of a DAC clock, are you listening to the DAC clock or to the DAC analogue output?

We do understand that but so what, we never listen to the “clock itself” we listen to the analogue outputs of the DAC, that’s the whole point of a DAC, the clue is in the name!

G

I am explaining that an IEM frequency graph leaves much out, and there is no way to measure cable abilities. Thus there is no proof they do anything and no proof the don't do anything.

Hence your list and the entire idea about IEM cables not doing anything to affect sound, still can't be adequately measured, hence if it exists or not....................can not be proven. This was a 30 second Google search on the internet to simply show what graphs leave out. We are not talking about Digital Work Stations, somehow you are fully avoiding the question at hand. We are talking about IEM cables..........remember? And for IEMs the cable debate is still unproven and can not be shown because technology has not been able to verify such subtle differences in audio. If is true (that these things can be measured) and I am wrong, please show me. I review cables and IEMs and would be greatly enlightened to gain such knowledge.

https://hifigo.com/blogs/guide/freq...dTc0Go0Ax3ihJD0mkq8eWJ3Gtz4Bi1p5T7DQy0v9F_VEd

>Timbre and Naturalness: The graph cannot convey the timbre or naturalness of the sound, which is influenced by factors such as the quality of the drivers, materials used, and tuning choices made by the manufacturer.

>Transient Response: The graph doesn't reveal how quickly the IEM can respond to rapid changes in sound, which can impact the overall dynamics and realism of the audio.

>Soundstage and Imaging: While a balanced frequency response can suggest a wide soundstage, the graph doesn't provide information about the IEM's imaging capabilities or the placement of instruments within the soundstage. The graph also doesn’t say anything about the soundstage depth or spatial cues.

>Transparency and Resolution: The ability of an IEM to reveal subtle details and textures in music, known as transparency and resolution, cannot be assessed solely from the frequency response graph.

>Sound Quality: The graph provides a general overview of the frequency response, but it doesn't capture the subjective aspects of sound quality such as clarity, detail retrieval, and overall dynamics.

This is all so very simple to explain here.

 

[colonelkernel8]

No all the cables are still in ownership of the manufacturer.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Why is this basic business ethic funny? Cables and IEM, and other audio equipment given for reviews into the community are for reference and can be called to be sent back at any time. Believe me any reviewer who has been found out to be guilty is pretty much gone from the review personal, there have been a few.

 

[colonelkernel8]

Why is this basic business ethic funny? Cables and IEM, and other audio equipment given for reviews into the community are for reference and can be called to be sent back at any time. Believe me any reviewer who has been found out to be guilty is pretty much gone from the review personal, there have been a few.

If they aren’t ever “called to be sent back” what do you think the company is doing?

 

[Redcarmoose]

If they aren’t ever “called to be sent back” what do you think the company is doing?

It may be a way to bypass taxes on goods? I don't know, I just know nothing can be sold. Technically we don't own it. We have had about three known occurrences of members placing review units in the classifieds. Another YouTube reviewer was exposed as to buying gear for a video review, then sending the stuff back to Amazon.com. NO. Then there are a few others, where it is hard to catch, but they are still reviewers, but have been known to sell review samples before, possibly. It is hard to prove this stuff at times.

 

[colonelkernel8]

It may be a way to bypass taxes on goods? I don't know, I just know nothing can be sold. Technically we don't own it. We have had about three known occurrences of members placing review units in the classifieds. Another YouTube reviewer was exposed as to buying gear for a video review, then sending the stuff back to Amazon.com. NO. Then there are a few others, where it is hard to catch, but they are still reviewers, but have been known to sell review samples before, possibly. It is hard to prove this stuff at times.

I’m not even suggesting you’re selling anything at all, but you’re getting to keep a product that you didn’t pay for indefinitely. So unless you don’t actually value these products as much as your reviews suggest you do, you’re getting free stuff in exchange for a good review.

 

[gregorio]

I am explaining that an IEM frequency graph leaves much out, and there is no way to measure cable abilities.

I know that’s what you’re explaining and that’s why you’re wrong. There is a way to measure all cable abilities and an IEM frequency graph is not how you measure cable abilities, it’s how you measure the frequency response of IEMs, duh!

We are not talking about Digital Work Stations, somehow you are fully avoiding the question at hand. We are talking about IEM cables..........remember?

Huh, you stated there was no way to measure “pace” and I stated that even DAWs can measure pace, how is that avoiding the question when my answer directly refutes it?!

And for IEMs the cable debate is still unproven and can not be shown because technology has not been able to verify such subtle differences in audio. If is true (that these things can be measured) and I am wrong, please show me.

That’s complete nonsense! Just record the output of the cable and feed it into a DAW to detect the pace, do the same with the original audio and then compare the difference, but there won’t be a difference because cables do not affect pace. If you want to measure the cable and IEM, then do the same but record the output of the IEM. That’s just pace, one can of course analyse the output for tone and harmonics using a spectrogram and other measurements for other properties. If one wants to be scientifically rigorous, then the transfer function of the IEMs could be modelled and simulated, a technique that’s been employed for 3 decades or so.

Your assertion is ridiculous simply by basic logic. Digital audio is itself a measurement so if “technology cannot verify such subtle differences in audio” there would be no subtle differences in audio! The rest of your post is also nonsense and I’ve already explained why!

G

 

[Redcarmoose]

I’m not even suggesting you’re selling anything at all, but you’re getting to keep a product that you didn’t pay for indefinitely. So unless you don’t actually value these products as much as your reviews suggest you do, you’re getting free stuff in exchange for a good review.

I can write whatever I want. I can give a product a single star or 5 stars. The thing is since around 2022 the China manufacturers have changed sound quality to where everything now is insanely good, it really is! The IEMs I’m hearing are subjectively off the scale. So if they get a four star review based on price, then they truly deserve it. If you read my last Astral IEM review, I talk about the tone edging to too bright in the Pinna Gain, and I talk about Kiwi ears very first included modular cable. The tone of the cable is probably not pure copper because it sounds like silver and copper, maybe not the very best combo for the IEM. But in the end my reviews are just my subjective opinion, still I gave the Astral 4.5 stars because it is really good!

But I’m in total amazement of the Kiwi ears factory. There is a YouTube video which shows the factory tour, and it is well worth the 10 minutes to see. The factory is so organized and clean, sophisticated and cool! Nothing like you could ever imagine! But no IEM is perfect, there are just better examples of the building art and lesser examples. And the crazy part is there are many ways to tune a headphone. Sometimes it is reference in being even and complete, correct and balanced. Then other times there is a mid bass bump and a midrange of 2kHz to 3kHz then a smooth treble, and that tune (even though wrong and colored) provides a fun listening experience. It is like you really have to know the rules to then go ahead and break them.

Sure the cables are a critical thing to try and understand. Meaning how could anyone describe these changes of cables and illustrate usage practices if they were not truly experiencing them? And on a different day they are exactly the same year in and year out. I don’t have all the answers as to how or why cables make the difference they do, but I do this because I truly enjoy the hobby.

 

[gregorio]

The tone of the cable is probably not pure copper because it sounds like silver and copper, maybe not the very best combo for the IEM.

The tone of the cable definitely is not pure copper because pure copper doesn’t have any tone and neither does “silver and copper”. Either provide reliable evidence of your claims or stop posting the same BS over and over!

G

 

[colonelkernel8]

I can write whatever I want. I can give a product a single star or 5 stars. The thing is since around 2022 the China manufacturers have changed sound quality to where everything now is insanely good, it really is! The IEMs I’m hearing are subjectively off the scale. So if they get a four star review based on price, then they truly deserve it. If you read my last Astral IEM review, I talk about the tone edging to too bright in the Pinna Gain, and I talk about Kiwi ears very first included modular cable. The tone of the cable is probably not pure copper because it sounds like silver and copper, maybe not the very best combo for the IEM. But in the end my reviews are just my subjective opinion, still I gave the Astral 4.5 stars because it is really good!

But I’m in total amazement of the Kiwi ears factory. There is a YouTube video which shows the factory tour, and it is well worth the 10 minutes to see. The factory is so organized and clean, sophisticated and cool! Nothing like you could ever imagine! But no IEM is perfect, there are just better examples of the building art and lesser examples. And the crazy part is there are many ways to tune a headphone. Sometimes it is reference in being even and complete, correct and balanced. Then other times there is a mid bass bump and a midrange of 2kHz to 3kHz then a smooth treble, and that tune (even though wrong and colored) provides a fun listening experience. It is like you really have to know the rules to then go ahead and break them.

Sure the cables are a critical thing to try and understand. Meaning how could anyone describe these changes of cables and illustrate usage practices if they were not truly experiencing them? And on a different day they are exactly the same year in and year out. I don’t have all the answers as to how or why cables make the difference they do, but I do this because I truly enjoy the hobby.

Does your faith ever waver? Have you ever heard a paradoxical cable? Like a silver cable that sounds “warm” or a copper cable that sounds “bright”? This is all rhetorical because unless you start actually caring about being correct you’re going to ignore me.

It’s just strange to me how the standards of truth in marketing and our general valuing of honesty goes completely out the window with audiophile junk. Imagine Apple selling a cable they claim adds “resolution” and “instrument separation” and “warmth”. They’d be sued in a week and would lose that lawsuit with absolute certainty. With these little boutique companies that operate out of Singapore and China they have no such risk so they just pump the BS out and apparently no one cares about being lied to.

 

[bigshot]

>Timbre and Naturalness

Frequency response balance

>Transient Response

Timing accuracy

>Soundstage and Imaging

Channel separation

>Transparency and Resolution

Distortion

>Sound Quality

Completely subjective according to your own personal taste. Meaningless to me or anyone else.

Your vague terminology doesn’t address signal to noise / noise floor.

If you learned how audio works, you could review equipment according to objective criteria that applies to everyone instead a vague hoodoo that just applies to you. Of course reviewing more precisely will make it difficult to engage in the giveaway gravy train from manufacturers because you won’t be able to write flattering flowery fluff to guarantee free swag any more.

As long as you write for manufacturers pleasure, you’re only benefitting yourself. Don’t flatter yourself thinking your reviews help consumers because the opposite is true. Your lust for free stuff is feeding the system that rips off audiophiles all over the internet.

You can do whatever you like, but just because other people do it doesn’t make it right. I stumbled into a similar situation once. I was enthusiastic about the first product they sent me and gave them positive feedback. Pleased with this, they sent me another product to review. I evaluated it and ended up considering it overpriced and no better sounding than an $8 Apple dongle. So I took the manufacturer’s request for an honest opinion at their word and wrote up a honest review. When I gave it to them they shut down and stopped communicating with me.

That’s how the game works. If you say nice things, the FedEx packages pile up on your doorstep. If you tell the truth it comes to a grinding halt fast. If I played it for free stuff, I would feel ashamed.

 

[theveterans]

Does your faith ever waver? Have you ever heard a paradoxical cable? Like a silver cable that sounds “warm” or a copper cable that sounds “bright”? This is all rhetorical because unless you start actually caring about being correct you’re going to ignore me.

It’s just strange to me how the standards of truth in marketing and our general valuing of honesty goes completely out the window with audiophile junk. Imagine Apple selling a cable they claim adds “resolution” and “instrument separation” and “warmth”. They’d be sued in a week and would lose that lawsuit with absolute certainty. With these little boutique companies that operate out of Singapore and China they have no such risk so they just pump the BS out and apparently no one cares about being lied to.

I wouldn’t be surprised some people perceive those as you wrote exactly

My subjective experience with cables is some of the silver ones can definitely sound like copper and vice versa, especially those that are made in East Asia or Pan Pacific boutique shops

 

[bigshot]

My subjective experience with cables is some of the silver ones can definitely sound like copper and vice versa, especially those that are made in East Asia or Pan Pacific boutique shops

Could that be because the food can be very spicy there? Or maybe because of the tropical weather patterns.

 

[Davesrose]

The tone of the cable definitely is not pure copper because pure copper doesn’t have any tone and neither does “silver and copper”. Either provide reliable evidence of your claims or stop posting the same BS over and over!

G

I don't know about anyone else, but when I'm enjoying a nice glass of chianti, I wind various grades and gauges of copper and silver. Plucking them individually, until I find that perfect tone.

 

[2leftears]

I wouldn’t be surprised some people perceive those as you wrote exactly

My subjective experience with cables is some of the silver ones can definitely sound like copper and vice versa, especially those that are made in East Asia or Pan Pacific boutique shops

And this has never made you wonder whether the perceived differences may actually have nothing to do with the conductor material?