[AudioDwebe]

Quote:

 
Wasn't the ER4 the first IEM?  Not only a classic, but a legend.

 
Agreed.
 
In Head-Fi University, the ER4 would be required listening.

 

[hkppl]

Agreed.

In Head-Fi University, the ER4 would be required listening.

+1

The ER4 is a good start for beginners.

Btw I believe Ety will release multi BA IEM eventually. But the ER4 series is still one of a must have IEM for me.

 

[ianmedium]

Average_Joe.
UM3X, triple.fi10, Se 530 and 535 and JH16 ( which were the least impressive in terms of performance for cost for me) .

 

[Spyro]

I think Don Wilson's logic is flawed.  He is assuming the "dummy" prop's ear canals they test their IEM's in are the exact same as all of the general publics.  Not true, and when we are talking centimeters, a little means a lot.  His logic is also not much different than saying unless you are using reference speakers in a perfect acoustic chamber, it's a waste of money and unnecessary.  I would disagree.
 
Let's not forget when ER4 was designed, the few IEM's that were out there were strictly for monotoring, strictly for tonality and I have said many times over they are great for that.  My problem has always been little to no visiceral weight and body (not just bass but a fullness) to the presentation.  But I listen for pleasure.  To me, ACCURATE is what gives me goosebumps and get's me fully engaged into the music.  Also called the sweet spot.
 
Fast forward 30 years and 99% of the public using earphones uses them for pleasure listening.  In this sense they want to hear and feel the music.  I think it has very little to do with marketing.  It's the sound

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

I find many top tier custom IEMs reduce the issues with coherence, and it may be more to do with tuning and driver matching than with the actual crossover.  If I am reading you right, the ES5 has better coherence than the UERM; is that correct? 

 
Yes and yes.  

 

[average_joe]

Quote:

Average_Joe.
UM3X, triple.fi10, Se 530 and 535 and JH16 ( which were the least impressive in terms of performance for cost for me) .

 
Got ya, I can see where one would find faults with those.

 

[Anaxilus]

It should be reiterated that the price performance ratio the last year or two has risen dramatically.  $300 IEMs now sound like $100 IEMs and vice-versa.

 

[grapefruit]

Etymotic's philosophy strikes me as a one of a sound purist's. Their BA's are supposedly tuned to mimic the FR attentuation of sound hitting one's pinna before entering the eardrum.  Furthermore, a single BA headphone eliminates all the messyness of unwanted phasal interactions from imperfect synchrony, which is inevitable due to differences in bore length and extra wiring.  
 
True, BA's are struck with rolloff on either side, but what the ER-4's deliver is top-notch, and near impossible to reproduce with a dynamic driver. We all know that multi-driver IEM's are hard to do right, and Etymotic probably just doesn't want to mess with something that's not broken.
 
That being said though, I'd jump at a new Etymotic with more extension 

 

[average_joe]

Quote:

It should be reiterated that the price performance ratio the last year or two has risen dramatically.  $300 IEMs now sound like $100 IEMs and vice-versa.

 
Yes and no.  Some multi-BAs from a major manufacturer leave a lot to be desired.  I am not overly impressed with most universals, even given the price after tasting the good, but expensive stuff.

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

 
Yes and no.  Some multi-BAs from a major manufacturer leave a lot to be desired.  I am not overly impressed with most universals, even given the price after tasting the good, but expensive stuff.

 
I certainly didn't mean the overall quality of sound has improved across the board.  

  You can get better sound now for cheaper than you could 2 years ago.  I can't think of a single $100 IEM from back then  that could compete w/ those currently in the Joker 9.0+ range.  I only mention that metric as both of us and many others are very familiar w/ a lot of those regardless of how people feel about scoring, etc.

 

[average_joe]

Quote:

 
I certainly didn't mean the overall quality of sound has improved across the board.  

  You can get better sound now for cheaper than you could 2 years ago.  I can't think of a single $100 IEM from back then  that could compete w/ those currently in the Joker 9.0+ range.  I only mention that metric as both of us and many others are very familiar w/ a lot of those regardless of how people feel about scoring, etc.

 
Sorry for the misinterpretation.  Yes, you are right, although I still have some major issue with just about every universal I have heard, the best being the LSX5, which was supposed to be a custom IEM but made into a universal (which makes me wonder about the Heir Audio i series).

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

Yes, you are right, although I still have some major issue with just about every universal I have heard, the best being the LSX5, which was supposed to be a custom IEM but made into a universal (which makes me wonder about the Heir Audio i series).

 
Well, that's simply because a custom is supposed to be tuned for each individual shell/bore shape and design.  That's a huge advantage but I don't think every custom takes full advantage in equal measure but it should in theory still be better than the end user trying to manage it w/ generic tips and various insertion techniques.  At least that's the theory.  Even Etymotic offers custom molded tips from Sensaphonics so in a way they even acknowledge the limitations of universals.  But it's all entirely personal and depends on about a hundred possible factors apart from any ideal theory which will formulate each opinion based on their respective experiences.  Most of the general impressions and opinions I read about everything on Head-fi are more quibbles resulting from user error or lack of understanding than any actual technical deficiency in the gear involved.
 
Maybe somebody should ask Ety/Don Wilson if given unlimited resources and market potential whether they could improve on the sound of the ER4.  If so, where would the improvement come from?  Otherwise, they are suggesting the ER4 is already perfect and impossible to improve upon.  Does anyone here actually believe that?  If not, then what do the Ety purists offer as critiques and where would they improve it?

 

[music_4321]

What I find most interesting about this thread is not the actual discussion --which is indeed interesting-- but that everyone will openly speak of the ER4 (and discuss both positive and negative aspects of it), yet when it comes to openly criticizing other manufacturers or specific IEMs, these are not always openly mentioned or discussed.

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

What I find most interesting about this thread is not the actual discussion --which is indeed interesting-- but that everyone will openly speak of the ER4 (and discuss both positive and negative aspects of it), yet when it comes to openly criticizing other manufacturers or specific IEMs, these are not always openly mentioned or discussed.

 
Do bear in mind this is an Etymotic specific thread so naturally they are discussed directly which seems more plausible than an alterior motive perhaps?  Anyway, if you want to call me out directly for something feel free.  

  Otherwise I'm....

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

 
Do bear in mind this is an Etymotic specific thread so naturally they are discussed directly which seems more plausible than an alterior motive perhaps?  Anyway, if you want to call me out directly for something feel free.  

  Otherwise I'm....

 
I know this is an Etymotic-related thread. And no, I wasn't thinking of your posts at all -- in fact, yours have been pretty open and straightforward.