[zeluiz22]

"Colored" as we use it means that the sound through the phones is somehow altered from the sound coming out of the source. (not sure I'm comfortable with the historic conotations of "colored' but that's for a different forum).

In any event, I took the Senn (650s) to Grado (RS2's and now 325i's) trip.

Senns, to my ears, are more altered from the source that are Grado's. Less "neutral", as we like to say. How is "veiled" different from "colored?"

I hear more accuracy in tone and detail from the Grados that I ever did the Senns. How does that make Grados "colored?"

 

[Kirosia]

All headphones are colored in some way. Me personally, I found both headphones to be not too bad in respect to my layman ears. (though I *personally* thought the HD650 was closer to neutral and grado more forgiving/yest sometimes pure evil, no I don't have objective measurements)

If a recording sounded forward, then the music sounded forward. If it was dull and muddy, then . . . it sounded dull and muddy. You see where I'm going here. Honestly, most of the music I listen to (american/asian popular as well some oldies) is recorded quite crappily, I can tell when I try difference sources and speakers, and the music still suffers from the same whatever-made-it-sound-like-arse-sound-signature. No, what I just said doesn't make sense.

 

[saturnine]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeluiz22 I hear more accuracy in tone and detail from the Grados that I ever did the Senns. How does that make Grados "colored?"

What you are hearing is likely the bumped up highs & midrange that shout out details, but also are not good qualities if you are looking for a neutral (flat) headphone. Glad to hear you are enjoying your Grados

 

[BluesDaddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeluiz22 "Colored" as we use it means that the sound through the phones is somehow altered from the sound coming out of the source. (not sure I'm comfortable with the historic conotations of "colored' but that's for a different forum). In any event, I took the Senn (650s) to Grado (RS2's and now 325i's) trip. Senns, to my ears, are more altered from the source that are Grado's. Less "neutral", as we like to say. How is "veiled" different from "colored?" I hear more accuracy in tone and detail from the Grados that I ever did the Senns. How does that make Grados "colored?"

What is your "reference"? IOW, to what are you comparing the sounds of the headphones? Do you have reference quality speakers? Have your heard the specific discs on a reference quality system? Without a frame of reference, it really is impossible to say something is more "neutral" or less "colored" than another. However, ISTM, "veiled" is a whole different animal, sort of like "focus" in regard to video. Something can be sharp as a tack yet still have the color off, etc. Same with audio.

 

[zeluiz22]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluesDaddy What is your "reference"? IOW, to what are you comparing the sounds of the headphones? Do you have reference quality speakers? Have your heard the specific discs on a reference quality system? Without a frame of reference, it really is impossible to say something is more "neutral" or less "colored" than another. However, ISTM, "veiled" is a whole different animal, sort of like "focus" in regard to video. Something can be sharp as a tack yet still have the color off, etc. Same with audio.

I have a musical fidelity A5 amp, a Jolida tube CDP and B&W 603 S3s; not the end-all, be-all, but not the worst, either. The 603s, if nothing else, are known for their neutrality.

 

[zeluiz22]

... as well as a Celaraudio Emotion table with an Aurum Wood Classics stick.

 

[BradH]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeluiz22 (not sure I'm comfortable with the historic conotations of "colored' but that's for a different forum).

Not nearly as bad as the reference to IDE disk configuration as 'master' and 'slave.' I'd definitely pay 10 bux to see a head-fier walk up to a random black man and ask him if his Grados are colored.

 

[zeluiz22]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradH Not nearly as bad as the reference to IDE disk configuration as 'master' and 'slave.' I'd definitely pay 10 bux to see a head-fier walk up to a random black man and ask him if his Grados are colored.

I'll see your ten and raise it ten grand.

 

[zeluiz22]

Anyway, to close this out- I guess my point is that Senns, to me, seem to change the sound by accentuating lows more than Grados do by accentuating highs. So why is tit the Grados that, getting awqay from colored, are less loyal to the music?

 

[Kirosia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeluiz22 Anyway, to close this out- I guess my point is that Senns, to me, seem to change the sound by accentuating lows more than Grados do by accentuating highs. So why is tit the Grados that, getting awqay from colored, are less loyal to the music?

Don't know. That's justhow some/many seem to feel about the subject. (I agree with them personally) I found grados to impart their house sound greatly on almost everything I played, while the senns kept more of what I believed to be accurate. Once again, just my own thoughts, no facts or evidence or nothing.

No need to get too hung up over it, just get some chocolate pretzels and enjoy the music.

 

[Jon L]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeluiz22 Anyway, to close this out- I guess my point is that Senns, to me, seem to change the sound by accentuating lows more than Grados do by accentuating highs. So why is tit the Grados that, getting awqay from colored, are less loyal to the music?

I wouldn't sweat it. Transducers, including headphones and speakers, show the largest variations and differences among them, WAY more than DAC's, preamps/amps, etc. They also happen to involve the most personal choice and tastes.

I have not heard any headphones or speakers at any price that are not "colored" to some degree, so I suggest everyone choose the color they prefer and let others enjoy their own color choices.

 

[zeluiz22]

I have not heard any headphones or speakers at any price that are not "colored" to some degree, so I suggest everyone choose the color they prefer and let others enjoy their own color choices.[/QUOTE]

... words to live by.

 

[warpdriver]

Coloring means to add a flavour to the music. My 225 definitely does that....the highers are sharper, the soundstage is more intimate, impact is enhanced, the bass is quicker and tighter (almost too tight), and on every piece of music I listen to, it sounds bright, sharp, and sibilant.

BTW: Some people think B&W speakers are too bright, so maybe your sense of "neutral" is not quite so.

 

[fureshi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirosia No need to get too hung up over it, just get some chocolate pretzels and enjoy the music.

mmm, chocolate pretzels...enjoying my rs1 right now. yes it sounds colored i suppose but i'm still enjoying the music. unless you have a reference, you won't know what the music was originally supposed to sound like as it goes through your source, amp and headphone, which all adds coloration.

 

[smeggy]

Considering all the equiptment and crap that music goes through between being played by the artists and being finally mastered, it's well colored long before we ever get to play it. I think 'neutrality' in recorded music is, by any standard, a myth. All our cans do is add their own personal flavor to whatever colors came from the recording studio.

Microphones are colored, as are the mixers, equalizers, monitoring speakers/cans, engineers personal preferences. Room acoustics, mic placement, compression used, producers inane input, overdubs etc. etc.

With most music, it's completely molested before it even leaves the studio. All our cans can do is help ameliorate some of the sonic damage. Anyone believing anything on most CD's even remotely resembles 'neutral' is deluding themselves. Saying any headphone is neutral is meaningless with regard to recorded music.

IMHO