[bigshot]

On my G4 and G5, iTunes is very peppy. No sluggishness at all. The integration of iPod and iTunes into OSX is just as revelatory as the integration of the iPod into iTunes.

See ya
Steve

 

[CookieFactory]

Macs? Please excuse me if I scoff.
Because I have an uncontrollable scoffing problem. It's a medical condition and requires prescription medication.

 

[Beethovenian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcelproust I don't want to be recognised as an ipod used in public.

Completely off-topic, I just thought your username was very interesting. I love In Search of Lost Time, it's my all-time favorite novel. And to me it seems fitting that a proustian wouldn't want to be seen as one more in the huge crowd of iPod users.

I particularly think the iPod is a decent product, but overrated, and too much oriented for the average pop listener. For somebody who devotes more than 90% of his listening time to classical music, as in my case, it has the fatal flaw of lack of gapless playback, and the minor but significant flaw of a interface that's not particularly friendly (they should let you have the composer name in the now playing screen, and some company should adopt at least the use of album and song artists browsing, since having conductor, soloist and ensemble fields would probably be way out of the possible).

 

[K2Grey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beethovenian I particularly think the iPod is a decent product, but overrated, and too much oriented for the average pop listener. For somebody who devotes more than 90% of his listening time to classical music, as in my case, it has the fatal flaw of lack of gapless playback, and the minor but significant flaw of a interface that's not particularly friendly (they should let you have the composer name in the now playing screen, and some company should adopt at least the use of album and song artists browsing, since having conductor, soloist and ensemble fields would probably be way out of the possible).

With Rockbox, the iPod has gapless playback (and a parametric EQ, and file tree browsing which is more convenient for unusual arrangements).

I have the artist name set to the composer, and then have the conductor's name in the album. For example, the composer might be "Ludwig van Beethoven" and the album could be "Symphony No. 7 (Karajan)". There are also ways to organize things well with the folders. For example, you can have a folder for the composer, and a sub-folder for what type of work it is (symphony, piano sonata, string quartet, etc.) and then another sub-folder for who is performing it, and then another sub-folder for which work it was, and then the files. This is difficult to arrange without a filetree system.

 

[Beethovenian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by K2Grey With Rockbox, the iPod has gapless playback (and a parametric EQ, and file tree browsing which is more convenient for unusual arrangements). I have the artist name set to the composer, and then have the conductor's name in the album. For example, the composer might be "Ludwig van Beethoven" and the album could be "Symphony No. 7 (Karajan)". There are also ways to organize things well with the folders. For example, you can have a folder for the composer, and a sub-folder for what type of work it is (symphony, piano sonata, string quartet, etc.) and then another sub-folder for who is performing it, and then another sub-folder for which work it was, and then the files. This is difficult to arrange without a filetree system.

That's true, a filetree system gives you flexibility. But doesn't allow you to search by performer, instead of by composer, for instance. Sometimes you may want that. I would like to be able to have multiple ways of searching for my music. And that's why I don't like having my albums tagged the way you do it. When you have at least ten different recordings for each Beethoven symphony, you care enough about the interpreters to want their names having their own tag field. Anyway, Rockbox is an option, certainly. I don't think it's there yet, though.

 

[luckybaer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcelproust Having and option to manage music archieves with play lists is obviously something that could be useful. While I would stil like to keep that option I must admit that my way of organising music files is very simple. I put them in folders and I put the folders inside other folders. When I don't do this I feel uncomfortable using the files. I do the same thing with my documenst and pictures. In all cases when I listen to music I either, 1. repeat a single song 2. repeat an album ( a folder in this case) 3. repeat an artists whole albums (a main folder in this case) What I didn't like on Itunes wasn't it features. I didn't use it long enough to discover its features. The thing I didn't like was its design. The round curves and Ipod animated icons, shapes etc have driven me crazy. When I see this design it only reminds me on snobbish teenagers and there is no way I can enjoy my music. The black color on 5G was a huge improvement I think. I don't want to be recognised as an ipod user in public.

I'm so sorry that the aesthetic qualities of an iPod prohibit you from enjoying your music.

 

[bangraman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot On my G4 and G5, iTunes is very peppy. No sluggishness at all. The integration of iPod and iTunes into OSX is just as revelatory as the integration of the iPod into iTunes. See ya Steve

I notice that too... well, if not a revelation, it's certainly an object lesson in how it should be done. The former is (the level of OS integration of the DAP and playback software) definitely something that Windows users are missing and is a small but very nice extra. Not to mention that iTunes on the Mac gets unmolested playback unlike the Windows version (thanks to Windows itself). I'm still leaning heavily in favour of j.River Media Center as a main playback software, but I have no complaints with iTunes out of the iMac.


Personally, as far as classical music goes it is probably the only form of music which I dedicate listening time to when at a desk or sitting down. To enjoy it beyond a fleeting taste, I really need peace and quiet regardless of the isolation. I do listen to a goodly amount of classical on the move, but it's not given the attention that it would be otherwise. And given that situation, a less than half-second gap between each 10 minute set is hardly a deal-breaker... especially as all you're interrupting in many situations is the obligatory between-movement coughs.


Of course, it depends on your particular prejudices and listening environments. I'm particularly focused on a combination of :
~portability
~everyday usability (encompassing but not limited to reliability of operation, good ergonomics and ease of use in the entire product usage cycle)
~good all-round performance as a jukebox and good design (not in a visual sense but from an overall product sense. It is however the case in many instances that good product design from a usability sense ends up with an elegant visual design).


The iPod delivers in those aspects as far as I'm concerned, above and beyond other players I've had (not tried in a shop, borrowed a sister's, etc). Given the compromises involved in the above core requirements on other players, a permanent change is something I've so far not been willing to make although I will also admit that the sameyness of iPods (although I still appreciate the physical elements of the design) has me bored. But for me these days it's more of a tool rather than an accessory, so the fact that it is getting kind of boring-looking doesn't bother me too much. After all, I buy... oh, a hammer for example which works without bits falling off or me having to screw the head in each time I use it, not because of the way it looks.


If gapless out of the box is your be-all and end-all, there is certainly one current player from a manufacturer particularly adept at shooting itself in the foot

... and I would rather imagine that Proust would have written with whatever pen worked for him, and wouldn't have regarded it's uniqueness as any definition of character although he might have been attached to that particular pen. On the other hand, those for whom the choice is solely driven by the need to to 'stand out' in this ultimately inconsequential way, and moreover engages in ill-researched attacks on those who choose what is popular for very good reasons amply demonstrates the character of some

 

[Beethovenian]

Nice post, Bangraman, it's good to see that Apple has admirers able to defend it in such an elegant, well argumented way. I disagree, but respect your points. In any case, Proust was fussy and it wouldn't surprise me he would be picky about his pens. But obviously by proustian I would think of someone who would try to go beyond the surface, and therefore not be taken by a certain modism just for the sake of it. Sure, that could mean going for the very popular, if you see a good reason to have it. But it would mean as well be able to see that each person has his or her own particularities and the very popular for a very good reason may not suit him or her. As it happens, the less than half-second pause bothers me when I listen to many of my classical music albums on the go, since they have track transitions that include much more than coughs. But it bothers me more that this is never taken care of, and very well written defenses like yours will probably just give more ammunition to Apple to continue ignoring it.

 

[muckluck]

Koreans do it best!

I love my Iriver H320 and my Cowon A2. The best thing about them, no proprietary connectors. Most people who buy digital cameras or other items that connect to a PC have USB mini to USB cables around. If you ever break your USB cable, you either have one laying around, or it's cheap to replace. Same thing with the charger, if you break the cable you can go to some electronics store and buy a generic aftermarket charger to replace it. My cellphone and A2 use the same connector and the chargers output the same Volts/amps.
Line-out is another big plus for the majority of the Iriver/cowon players. No need to buy anything for it to work and no need to modify the player in anyway.
Firmware is another big thing. No real need for Rockbox (although it does offer some fun new features that aren't supplied by the 1st party firmware) or other 3rd party firmwares because the players support any file type you'll ever need with the firmware from the manufacturer. Cowon releases a new firmware ever few weeks for their A2, and they just released the source code for it (it runs a version of Linux) so modding it will be incredibly easy.
Those are just my big reasons for liking Iriver and Cowon over iPods. To me all that an ipod offers is fasion and ease of use, and I don't really care much for either. If that is all you care about, then fine, but if you are looking for a powerful DAP then look to Cowon and Iriver.

 

[K2Grey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beethovenian That's true, a filetree system gives you flexibility. But doesn't allow you to search by performer, instead of by composer, for instance. Sometimes you may want that. I would like to be able to have multiple ways of searching for my music. And that's why I don't like having my albums tagged the way you do it. When you have at least ten different recordings for each Beethoven symphony, you care enough about the interpreters to want their names having their own tag field. Anyway, Rockbox is an option, certainly. I don't think it's there yet, though.

http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/vie...sing_Tag_Cache

It supports both "Artist" and "Composer" tags. So you could have the performer or the conductor as the Artist, and the composer as the Composer.

However, TagCache doesn't seem to be fully developed at this point.

 

[mixxxer]

I love my Nano. I have tried on 2 occasions over the last 2 month to 'like' iTunes - But I just can't. I always just go back t o Media Monkey. I think the reason though - is that Once I loaded up my Nano a few months ago - I don't need anything else. I don't need to add more songs, or re-sync etc. I don't use playlists. So iTunes is not for me.

However, for what it is worth - I have learned about alot of cool things that iTunes can do from reading BigShots posts. I always think 'wow that is a cool feature - personally i wouldn't use that feature - but that is a good idea'

I agree with the person who mentioned that iTunes can be seen as an addition to an ipod - where it helps bring out extra features for some people.

But for a guy like me - It is overkill. So - I have never actually used iTunes to do anything with my iPod. Some people just don't need it - and I think people don't realize that. Some people think that to get an iPod mean you 'must' use iTunes, and if they previously have disliked iTunes it will turn them off from buying an iPod.

O well.

 

[granodemostasa]

wow, i havn't paid any attention to this thread in a while. Okay... on the ipod, all i can add for right now is that the itunes is much easier to use in that i can tag and sort without downloading all kinds of extra addins, and since it does it automatically i can spend more time listening to music than typing.

 

[Kirosia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by muckluck Koreans do it best! Those are just my big reasons for liking Iriver and Cowon over iPods. To me all that an ipod offers is fasion and ease of use, and I don't really care much for either. If that is all you care about, then fine, but if you are looking for a powerful DAP then look to Cowon and Iriver.

I've had both an iriver and an ipod, define "powerful".

 

[muckluck]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirosia I've had both an iriver and an ipod, define "powerful".

Powerful in the sense that it can do a lot and do it good.

-- P.S. --

I have never really owned an iPod. My ipod experience is just playing around with friends and family members players and not much else. As stated before I cannot stand proprietary stuff, and I can not stand iTunes.

 

[bigshot]

In other words, the thing you are talking about isn't something you have a great deal of experience in... (I rephrased that a bit to be polite.)

See ya
Steve