Why i changed my opinion on Custom IEM (CIEM) + Tips

[Vamp898]

To people who I'm no stranger with i am known for not being a big fan of Custom IEM (from now on called CIEM for convenience) for two reasons. I made bad experience with them and i know people who made the same bad experience with them (So knowing i am not alone, i assumed there is a general issue).

I had CIEM that didn't really fit and caused air pressure issues even after refit and i gave up, as other people had too. But someone convinced me to give them another try and explained what was the reason. ""Wrong"" Ear Impressions.

Most IEM Makers will tell you to use a bite block or chew gum or open/close the mouth several times when taking ear impressions. These will result in larger impressions and so with a better fit overall..... when you perform on stage! These are instructions for stage performing musicians.

If you are using them for listening to music, in an everyday environment, it will lead to the exact opposite. IEM that are too large, uncomfortable, cause ear pressure issues and fit issues like slowly creeping out and such.

FitEar for example knows that and has different instructions on how to take ear impressions, depending on how you are intending to use them. When you use them for music listening, they will recommend you the following (which is my gratis tip for you):

Keep your mouth closed! Not pressed, just shut. So an relaxed position where you use your muscles to barely have your lips together, like you would sit in an office or at home or whatever. An relaxed, closed mouth position and your head straight (not angled in any direction).

That way your impressions will be slightly smaller, but guess what, they fit. They might loose their fit when you open your mouth wide (so they might, depending on your ear canal, start to creep/fall out when you try to eat something) but except for that, they fit perfectly.

And with these instructions, i ordered a new pair of Custom IEM and they are perfect. For the first time ever, i am able to hear music with an IEM which sounds identical left/right to me because the IEM maker (if he knows what he does) makes them in a way, that they compensate for different ear canal shapes/sizes/air volume. So depending on your ear, the length of left/right will be different if that is necessary to make them sound identical (like with mine).

Also its so much faster to insert them, they always sit at the same position, there is no need for earpieces ever again, they isolate great, i could choose the design (Left/Right with different design was possible too) and so on.

Its just perfect. After having been let down the first time i was very skeptical but i am happy that i took another try and i am almost angry i could not have this already years ago just because i had ""wrong"" impressions.

So if anyone is thinking about CIEM and if its worth to get them, use my tip (which is actually from FitEar, i just stole it ) and look forward to them, its awesome. Its a whole new world of comfort and sound. Its the definitive IEM experience.

 

[ddlo]

Seems it maybe the Japanese traditional to use close mouth ear impression for listeners. I did once for fitear in e-earphones and Sony justear in Tokyo heating. Both asked if i prefer to use the bite block - they also told me they knew it's more common to use bite block in other markets - and offered to do so.

My experience varies a lot between who makes the ear impression and who makes the ciems. In general, i found audiologists doing less well and the shop technicians usually made better ones (in terms of right fitting). On 2nd thought, the making of ear impression is more like injecting compound gel into ear. The main difficulties maybe how to steadily injecting and make sure the compound fills all space inside the ear canal. So it's nothing about whether the audiologist is aiming for long term comfort as i first (wrongly, apparently) thought.

those deep insert design is generally more likely to break seal in my experience. Hence i found fitear to be the best fitting imho. Fir, 64 and jh audio all made ahells with longer nozzle and feel more tight fit. Just my guess from 15 sets of ciems from different makes.

Edited

 

[ducnsh]

I have come across your contributions on various threads on Head-Fi and am pleased to hear about the success of your new CIEM. Regarding ear impressions, I have learned that there are two types of fit designed for different purposes: shallow fit and deep fit, tailored for audiophiles and performers, respectively, as these can influence the sound. Have you explored this topic further?

 

[Pitufo]

Around two weeks ago I contacted Softerars to purchase a CIEM (RSV). I customized design and color, and the ear impressions were made a week ago.
After that they sent me the prototypes of the shells to test and everything went very well. Now wait about two weeks for it to be ready!
I'm very excited and intrigued, because it's the first time I do CIEM.
I have to say that the people at Softears are excellent, very friendly and professional, and fast. If all goes well, I might get a CIEM of Cerberus.

 

[Vamp898]

I have come across your contributions on various threads on Head-Fi and am pleased to hear about the success of your new CIEM. Regarding ear impressions, I have learned that there are two types of fit designed for different purposes: shallow fit and deep fit, tailored for audiophiles and performers, respectively, as these can influence the sound. Have you explored this topic further?

I asked FitEar about that and they told me, they have two type of lengths. Short Leg and Middle Leg, they don't do long leg (as far as i was told).

Short Leg are used for IEM that are Hybrids with Dynamic Drivers, Middle Leg are used for all BA. My MH334SR is Middle Leg.

 

[ducnsh]

I asked FitEar about that and they told me, they have two type of lengths. Short Leg and Middle Leg, they don't do long leg (as far as i was told).

Short Leg are used for IEM that are Hybrids with Dynamic Drivers, Middle Leg are used for all BA. My MH334SR is Middle Leg.

Thank you for the information! Is the length of the "leg" associated with the treble roll-off phenomenon in CIEMs?

 

[Vamp898]

Thank you for the information! Is the length of the "leg" associated with the treble roll-off phenomenon in CIEMs?

That is something i can not comment on. I had the TG334 before which is the same IEM but in an universal Shell. And in direct comparison, the CIEM Version do not have any Treble Roll Off.

According to FitEar, the length of the leg is carefully adjusted to the ear canal to make the IEM sound exactly how it is supposed to sound. I asked if it is possible to get a longer leg during ordering because, in my experience, that causes a better fit. But they refused that commenting that this would affect how it is supposed to sound. They will make the leg exactly as long/short as it is needed to make it sound how it is supposed to sound.

If can not say if all maker do that, but to my knowledge, most do. So the Treble should be exactly as strong as it should be exactly how the maker made the IEM.

But some Makers (especially 64audio) are known to tune their Universals different than their Customs. So at least with 64audio, that could be an explanation. But most makers i know tune their Customs and Universal identical.

A lot of people use Universal IEM (Sealed IEM) with silicone earpieces which causes a bass roll-off. The stronger bass on the custom could be perceived as an treble roll-off but i am just guessing here.

 

[o0genesis0o]

That is something i can not comment on. I had the TG334 before which is the same IEM but in an universal Shell. And in direct comparison, the CIEM Version do not have any Treble Roll Off.

According to FitEar, the length of the leg is carefully adjusted to the ear canal to make the IEM sound exactly how it is supposed to sound. I asked if it is possible to get a longer leg during ordering because, in my experience, that causes a better fit. But they refused that commenting that this would affect how it is supposed to sound. They will make the leg exactly as long/short as it is needed to make it sound how it is supposed to sound.

If can not say if all maker do that, but to my knowledge, most do. So the Treble should be exactly as strong as it should be exactly how the maker made the IEM.

But some Makers (especially 64audio) are known to tune their Universals different than their Customs. So at least with 64audio, that could be an explanation. But most makers i know tune their Customs and Universal identical.

A lot of people use Universal IEM (Sealed IEM) with silicone earpieces which causes a bass roll-off. The stronger bass on the custom could be perceived as an treble roll-off but i am just guessing here.

Maybe shallow(er) fit moves the resonance peak lower into audible region, thus "brighter". CIEM should move the peak all the way to 16kHz. Because the peak is gone, it sounds "darker".

 

[Vamp898]

I just found out that Vision Ears also uses the same procedures, for stage and listening use. This is from their official recommendation

Also available in English

That is a surprise to me, as another famous German CIEM maker tells you to chew gum or do similar things, so do chewing movements.

So there seems to be no real rule how its done best.

 

[Sifo]

exaggerated chewing historically best method for me and the only one that produced 2 perfect molds including my fitear, vs literally over a dozen other tries of varying methods including relaxed/closed mouth. entirely personal ear shape, environment/circumstance on the day of, and of course up to the person taking the impression. I've wasted enough money on impressions to buy a decent ciem but at least I have a reliable stl to use at most manufacturers

 

[Vamp898]

exaggerated chewing historically best method for me and the only one that produced 2 perfect molds including my fitear, vs literally over a dozen other tries of varying methods including relaxed/closed mouth. entirely personal ear shape, environment/circumstance on the day of, and of course up to the person taking the impression. I've wasted enough money on impressions to buy a decent ciem but at least I have a reliable stl to use at most manufacturers

What were the issues with other methods. Did you have issues getting a proper seal or issues with comfort? (or maybe both?)

My impressions were included for free with the order at Fujiya Avic. They have a special contractor who took the mold.

 

[Sifo]

What were the issues with other methods. Did you have issues getting a proper seal or issues with comfort? (or maybe both?)

My impressions were included for free with the order at Fujiya Avic. They have a special contractor who took the mold.

No it was inconsistent every time. Could be pressure points in inner or outer, could be left side loose, right side, tight, whatever, doesn't matter, I've literally done over a dozen attempts since 2016 from a variety of different audiologists in both Toronto and NYC at different clinics who specialize in working with musicians. My two biggest successes were done by Bogdan from Fir Audio and Wilson from Jaben SG.

I haven't had to do impressions in Tokyo yet but I'll keep that in mind. I spoke to Suyama-san already about my impression woes and my reluctance to take new ones but he assured me that the short stem cut will use my BA model cut for reference.

 

[Vamp898]

No it was inconsistent every time. Could be pressure points in inner or outer, could be left side loose, right side, tight, whatever, doesn't matter, I've literally done over a dozen attempts since 2016 from a variety of different audiologists in both Toronto and NYC at different clinics who specialize in working with musicians. My two biggest successes were done by Bogdan from Fir Audio and Wilson from Jaben SG.

I haven't had to do impressions in Tokyo yet but I'll keep that in mind. I spoke to Suyama-san already about my impression woes and my reluctance to take new ones but he assured me that the short stem cut will use my BA model cut for reference.

Did you at least got the issues fixed with re-fitting or were those attempts lost?

 

[Sifo]

Did you at least got the issues fixed with re-fitting or were those attempts lost?

Some were able to refit albeit not perfect, just "good enough" to seal and be comfortable, and some were not salvageable and had to be rebuilt entirely. I can usually tell if it can be fixed by conventional refit or if it requires a rebuild. The easiest is when something is too tight cuz you can just grind it down but sometimes it takes more than one try because you don't wanna shave off too much at once.

Despite my struggles I am okay now with this stl, and absolutely live by CIEM only, into my 9th year of using them.

 

[Vamp898]

Some were able to refit albeit not perfect, just "good enough" to seal and be comfortable, and some were not salvageable and had to be rebuilt entirely. I can usually tell if it can be fixed by conventional refit or if it requires a rebuild. The easiest is when something is too tight cuz you can just grind it down but sometimes it takes more than one try because you don't wanna shave off too much at once.

Despite my struggles I am okay now with this stl, and absolutely live by CIEM only, into my 9th year of using them.

Was the rebuild for free or did it cost an additional charge?