[Emon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by germanium /img/forum/go_quote.gif The problem with boosting any frequencies digitally with many pop CD's is that they have recorded thier CD at maxed out volumes already & raising any frequence with digital EQ results in clipping unless you put it though a wave editor & reduce the overall volume first by about 10-12db so that you have some room to boost without running out of bits.

That would only be the case if the system mixer was already at full volume. Since most people don't play at full software volume, there are plenty of "bits left."

Quote:

Originally Posted by germanium /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you want to boost any frequencies without reducing the overall volume fiest you need to EQ in the analog domain, not digital!!

Digital systems are very much capable of reducing volume.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alpha80 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Lots of Consumer digital EQ's sound awful.

That would only be the case if the signal processing was very poorly implemented. The parametric EQ on Winamp or foobar2000 is exactly the same as the parametric EQ done in hardware by my E-MU 1212m. The only real difference is that I can specify the bandwidth with my EMU.

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

That would only be the case if the signal processing was very poorly implemented. The parametric EQ on Winamp or foobar2000 is exactly the same as the parametric EQ done in hardware by my E-MU 1212m. The only real difference is that I can specify the bandwidth with my EMU.

Did you try my little Sine Wave test? Before i had my DT880 and X-Cans, i used my SR225 directly from my soundcard. I had to put every volume slider close to zero so i wouldnt blow my ears of. Still that test produced bad distortion when trying to boost frequencies.

 

[F107plus5]

The old Onkyo receiver I am using to drive my MS2i is cool. It has the old fashioned "tone" controls for bass and treble and occasionally on some of my real bass shy CDs I may add a db or two of bass to the mix, but fortunately the response of my MS2i is just fine at zero/zero for virtually all the tunes I have.

For the home theater speaker system, things are a lot more fun!! The rest of the family has the typical North American attitude that if bass is good, a lot of bass is better!! They wanted me to set it up with about 5db added at 80 and another 6 or 7 at 50!! Plus another 3db to the sub for speaker level set-up!!

They like bass heavy music and real floor shaking stuff during the movies!

....ok; floor shaking is cool!!

But over the past year or so, I have been slowly, very slowly; dialing things back down to where things are actually "right" and it's been so gradual that they haven't really noticed!

See! EQing can actually save a marriage and help hold a family together!!

 

[Gradofan2]

In general... adding any circuitry to the signal path will alter the sound quality from the recording - whether, or not it sounds better, or worse, to the listener. And... if I were "independently wealthy," I might eschew EQ as well... as a so-called "purist" - endlessly swapping more and more expensive components until I "got there."

However... "so what!"

What the so-called "purists" out there fail to realize (or at least acknowledge) is that every component in the signal path from the moment the performer produces their first note is being "distorted" in one manner, or another... to one degree, or another... until it reaches the brain of the listener (microphones and their placement, recorder, media, mixer, ears of the engineer, preferences of the engineer... digital player, cables, amp, phones, ears of the listener... and the components of all these - opamps, tubes, caps, etc.). Every component imparts it's own sonic characteristics to the signal/sound... or, "distorts" the sound from the original performance.

When the "purist" changes their digital player, cables, amp, phones... or the components within these - they are... quite simply... "EQing" their sound - or, "distorting" the sound to their personal preferences. And... "That's a fact Jack!"

So... find yourself a quality EQ, or sound processor (even better)... which adds no noise, maintains the details, and minimizes unintended distortion... and adjust the sound to your preferernces - it's no different than endlessly swapping CDP's, DAC's, Amps, Phones, Opamps, Tubes, Caps, etc.

The one I use and like (which is used by recording engineers and performers), because it "adds magic and realism" to the sound (without excessive loss of details, or noise)... and allows me to taylor the sound of my Senns to sound like my Grados, or ATH's is the Aphex 204 Aural Exciter. For now... I'll stick with it... because it's a much more cost effective means to "get there" without major investments in continuing to swap components... under the false impression that I'm maintaining the purity of the sound.

 

[tbritton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif However... "so what!"

Yes, my position exactly.

The recording engineer selects mics (and all mics have a "sound" to them - recording studios do not use laboratory reference mics as recording mics!), places them where it "sounds best" (another judgement call), records through a variety of cool and expensive compressors, EQs, effects and other processors using generally fairly pedestrian cables as interconnects (my goodness! and it still sounds good???), mixes over their own reference speakers but tests the mix to sound good on a wide variety of other speakers of varying quality (like car stereo speakers), does a bunch of audiophile-like optimizations in the name of being a good engineer (called "mastering" which is making more judgement calls), and delivers the goods via some medium to your equipment.

Now, we can get all purist about theoretical specs of our equipment, but still, ears are different shapes, rooms have different acoustics, head resonance transfer functions (HRTF) are different for every body out there, ears are different shapes, and ears are different shapes.

Go ahead and be your own "mastering engineer" for the end-final-stretch of your listening enjoyment and EQ the sound to be the way it sounds good to you!

It is really OK to make your own judgement calls, no matter who tells you that you should let the purity of the "intention of the artist" come through. That is just hogwash. It is about your money spent to enjoy your own listening experience! There is no denying that the sound is already altered before it got to you... altering it a little bit more is no sin punishable by flogging with mic-cables bound together into a cat-o-nines! Follow reasonable guidelines to avoid distorting the sound perhaps, but do what ever it takes that makes you happy with your investment in music and equipment.

Terry

 

[Vicomte]

I might use EQ if I had a quality way to EQ at hand, which I don't. I think it can get a bit too complex for my tastes, as different songs have different volumes of sounds in the first place. Some songs have really prominent bass, others, not so much, and I'd hate to have to fiddle with EQ all the time.

Just as an experiment, yesterday, I tried the bass boost setting on my iPod with my ER-4. I didn't know bass could sound like cardboard, but it did. Call me autistic, but I swear bad cymbals sound orange, as well.

 

[tbritton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicomte /img/forum/go_quote.gif I might use EQ if I had a quality way to EQ at hand, which I don't. I think it can get a bit too complex for my tastes, as different songs have different volumes of sounds in the first place. Some songs have really prominent bass, others, not so much, and I'd hate to have to fiddle with EQ all the time. Just as an experiment, yesterday, I tried the bass boost setting on my iPod with my ER-4. I didn't know bass could sound like cardboard, but it did. Call me autistic, but I swear bad cymbals sound orange, as well.

I'd say that is an accurate color choice!

iPod EQ is dodgy... and is always a boost from what I have been hearing people say. I only EQ a very small amount manually. iPod EQs I can tolerate are the Treble Boost, Jazz, Acoustic, Electronic and Rock settings, depending on the music (not necessarily the kind of music being named by the EQ - Joe Satriani sounds best to me using the Jazz setting, for instance.) The Latin setting is interesting sometimes as well. All you can do is try them out. I mostly run flat from my iPod into my Shure E4cs, but get wonky sometimes and use the EQ (but I've mp3gained my files first - see an earlier post of mine about that.)

Terry

 

[TheDarkTrumpet]

My thoughts on the "sound enhancer" and the equilizer settings on iTunes are a little mixed.

When I turn on "sound enhancer" it totally colors the music, in a bad way for me. Using the equilizer makes me feel like i'm sitting all that much closer to the music. I get a similar effect just turning up the sound some.

For me, I really enjoy the sounds of my headphones (DT880s), with no coloration to the music - as if I was just standing there listening to the music.

Now, one thing that may be an idea for me anyways, is to chart my hearing, and develop an equilizer setting that accurately tries to compensate for the frequencies that I hear poorly on. That way perhaps I won't miss much in the music and all that.

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkTrumpet /img/forum/go_quote.gif My thoughts on the "sound enhancer" and the equilizer settings on iTunes are a little mixed. When I turn on "sound enhancer" it totally colors the music, in a bad way for me. Using the equilizer makes me feel like i'm sitting all that much closer to the music. I get a similar effect just turning up the sound some. For me, I really enjoy the sounds of my headphones (DT880s), with no coloration to the music - as if I was just standing there listening to the music. Now, one thing that may be an idea for me anyways, is to chart my hearing, and develop an equilizer setting that accurately tries to compensate for the frequencies that I hear poorly on. That way perhaps I won't miss much in the music and all that.

But... that's just the point... all components "color" the signal... including your setup and headphones - whatever they are. You're just "coloring" the signal to your personal preferences - that's unfortunately the truth about "quantum mechanics."

So... find a sound processor that is sophisticated enough and good enough to permit you to "color" the music to your preferences - and you'll be able to "tune" any component, or recording, to your preference.

Or... perhaps you're happy with the "color" imparted by your particular setup and phones - that's OK too! But... I'm sure you'll find a lot of recordings that are either too bright, or too dark, or too whatever... that you'd prefer to "color" to your preferences - which a quality sound processor will permit you to do.

 

[TheDarkTrumpet]

I suppose you're right. I kinda want the music to sound as if I'm sitting in the audience of a real performance with that music. Not too close, not too far away, and the balance an orchestra would give.

Most music seems to reflect that OK without the need for an equalizer, at least for me.

 

[Emon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaZa /img/forum/go_quote.gif Did you try my little Sine Wave test?

I did. There wasn't any distortion.

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emon /img/forum/go_quote.gif I did. There wasn't any distortion.

How come both Winamp, Foobar, and Electri-Q software EQ produce flabby side-sound, whenever i boost the bass above zero line?

 

[Gradofan2]

Whether the effects of any EQ or Sound Processor are pleasing to the listener... of course... depends upon the quality of the EQ or Sound Processor, and the preferences of the listener.

There's a good possibility that inexpensive hardware, or "software," EQ's and Sound Processors may not provide the sound quality, or "color" options that will please any particular listener. If there is any loss of clarity, detail, or control, or the addition of any noise - then you need to move on to another EQ, or Sound Processor, whether hardware based, or "software" based.

 

[tbritton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaZa /img/forum/go_quote.gif How come both Winamp, Foobar, and Electri-Q software EQ produce flabby side-sound, whenever i boost the bass above zero line?

That is the sound of convolution. formant analysis --> convolution algorithm. It is like enlarging a photo using resampling - where pixels are "created" to fill space.

Cut only, no boost.

Terry

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbritton /img/forum/go_quote.gif That is the sound of convolution. formant analysis --> convolution algorithm. It is like enlarging a photo using resampling - where pixels are "created" to fill space. Cut only, no boost. Terry

Yeah, nut why Emon didnt notice anything like that?