[Wenglish]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scytheavatar /img/forum/go_quote.gif Mastodon is a very overrated band, so there's nothing to be surprised about their music not "grabbing" you. Opeth is very overrated, too. System of a Down is rock, not metal. Marquee Moon is not metal. Europe is hard rock/glam metal, in another words they are not a metal band (since glam metal is essentially rock). Have you heard these albums? They are the ones I usually recommend to those new to metal: Megadeth - Rust in Peace Judas Priest - Painkiller Kamelot - The Black Halo Symphony X - The Divine Wings of Tragedy Black Sabbath - Paranoid Crimson Glory - Trancendence Death - Symbolic

Fixed it for you there

Seriously, they bore me to death.

Otherwise, some good recommendations there. I'd also suggest Judas Priest's Unleashed in the East. Some of their best songs, just with a better production than the studio cuts. Makes for a great juxtaposition with Painkiller (amazing what 21 years can do, huh?). Probably toss in some early Iron Maiden and Deep Purple, too.

I was considering making some long winded, contrived post about the overall topic but decided I'd really rather just listen to the music I enjoy.

Who cares if a critic or some person on the internet doesn't like Your Favorite Band or Genre? You still like Your Favorite Band, right? We're in this hobby to get even more enjoyment out of Our Favorite Bands, right?

Or maybe I'm just enjoying the new rig enough to still be listening to music at 4:45AM.

 

[saintalfonzo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scytheavatar /img/forum/go_quote.gif Mastodon is a very overrated band, so there's nothing to be surprised about their music not "grabbing" you. Opeth is a great band but Watershed is far from their best album, and you must first learn to be open minded, willing to try liking harsh vocals. System of a Down is rock, not metal. Marquee Moon is not metal. Europe is hard rock/glam metal, in another words they are not a metal band (since glam metal is essentially rock). Have you heard these albums? They are the ones I usually recommend to those new to metal: Megadeth - Rust in Peace Judas Priest - Painkiller Kamelot - The Black Halo Symphony X - The Divine Wings of Tragedy Black Sabbath - Paranoid Crimson Glory - Trancendence Death - Symbolic

Well metal mostly bores me to death, so I guess it would explain why you said Mastodon is overrated. They seem to bring something new and interesting to the table, and are the first metal band I've actively listened to in some time. Symphony X are more progressive metal than just metal, and all of the others are great but have grown stale for me. I welcome Mastodon as something fresh, new and interesting.

 

[tru blu]

One thing: Folks keep saying that Tom Verlaine isn't metal, and of course, they're right. Everybody knows that. But if you read back thru the thread, you'll realize that he was mentioned because one enraged metalhead wrote that no punk musician has ever been cited for genius musicianship EVER, except maybe a drummer…or something like that. Of course, there're plenty of other fine punk musicians, but whatever; it's true that punks didn't care much for the cult of virtuosity. I think they're better off for it, but that's just me.

Just found this on youtube:

YouTube - Sonic Youth - "Sacred Trickster" on Letterman 6/10 (TheAudioPerv.com)

 

[terriblepaulz]

I think the generalization about "critical opinion" is less applicable today than 10, 15 or 20 years ago. Today there is pretty broad critical consensus about the greatness of a lot of classic metal bands, not to mention that it's more difficult to define a "broad critical consensus".

The punk vs. metal critical divide was, IMO, the result of cultural signifiers. Critics are bookish, intellectual, nerdy etc. In the 80s and into the 90s metal was identified with its fans - the kind of people who beat up bookish intellectual nerds in high school. Punk gave cerebral types the opportunity to bang their heads without the willful stupidity, violence and creepy homoeroticism of metal.

 

[CDBacklash]

Punk was badass with a reason.
Metal is badass without reason.
Critics hate that.

 

[steviebee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tru blu /img/forum/go_quote.gif One thing: Folks keep saying that Tom Verlaine isn't metal, and of course, they're right. Everybody knows that. But if you read back thru the thread, you'll realize that he was mentioned because one enraged metalhead wrote that no punk musician has ever been cited for genius musicianship EVER, except maybe a drummer…or something like that. Of course, there're plenty of other fine punk musicians, but whatever; it's true that punks didn't care much for the cult of virtuosity. I think they're better off for it, but that's just me. Just found this on youtube: YouTube - Sonic Youth - "Sacred Trickster" on Letterman 6/10 (TheAudioPerv.com)

Thanks, tru blu. I mentioned Tom for exactly that reason. Glad someone got it! And thanks for the Sonic link: Scott Thurston is another musician born out of punk who qualifies...in fact, & contrary to the frankly nonsensical view stated re musicianship, there've been quite few excellent musicians coming from the three chords-and-out initial punk wave.

 

[terriblepaulz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by steviebee /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks, tru blu. I mentioned Tom for exactly that reason. Glad someone got it! And thanks for the Sonic link: Scott Thurston is another musician born out of punk who qualifies...in fact, & contrary to the frankly nonsensical view stated re musicianship, there've been quite few excellent musicians coming from the three chords-and-out initial punk wave.

His name is Thurston Moore

 

[steviebee]

Whoops! Bang to rights!

Must be lack of caffeine...

Thx for the correction

 

[terriblepaulz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by steviebee /img/forum/go_quote.gif Whoops! Bang to rights! Must be lack of caffeine... Thx for the correction

always happy to be a pedantic bast*rd

 

[Qonmus]

It probably has something to do with albums like London Calling.

Nothing against the metalheads, but I never did get it.

Also, someone said that punk started in Europe, which offends my sensibilities (and surely several other people's as well). And yes, I know I referenced an English punk band earlier in my post.

 

[tru blu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qonmus /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also, someone said that punk started in Europe, which offends my sensibilities (and surely several other people's as well).

Yeah, but you know how people talk.

 

[asmox]

edited: not worth it.

 

[priest]

I listen to metal. But as for the answer to the OP's actual question, I think premiere rock critic Robert Christgau summed up one critical objection very nicely, if a bit abstrusely:

"I admire metal's integrity, brutality, and obsessiveness, but I can't stand its delusions of grandeur--the way it apes and misapprehends reactionary notions of nobility."

That is, it is falsely arty, and therefore non-intellectual. And punk would obversely be truly anti-intellectual, and therefore arty. I personally find the former view dismissive and short-sighted, but I also admit I vastly prefer punk. Anyway, I think we can all agree on Motorhead, which is in both camps. (The above quote came from Christgau's positive review of Orgasmotron.)

 

[jewman]

Honestly, I couldn't care less which critics like and dislike which genres. And regarding this notion of metal being "falsely arty," how is that even possible? There is no "right" or "wrong" in art, it's all subjective, just like Bose headphones I guess.

 

[roadtonowhere08]

Quote:

Originally Posted by asmox /img/forum/go_quote.gif edited: not worth it.

Well said

People will like what they like. I like metal, and I HATE punk. Many people are the opposite. Who cares? Enjoy what you like and to hell with the critics. They are mostly miserable losers anyway...