[Audiofiler]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahn bose isn't lo-fi. it's mid-fi with hi-fi pricing.

question answered, problem solved..now lock this thread before the nukes start flying

 

[Garbz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by memepool snip

Nope not the paper cone drivers, the foam surrounds. Nearly every audiophile speaker these days regardless of the cone has something other than foam surrounds. These are a relic of ancient times, and while they may be fine in Europe foam surrounds last only a few years in our 35degrees 100% humidity weather. It's like a car manufacturer selling a product and then not converting it to right hand drive for us, it's just not suitable for sale IMHO, and even if they were half the price I would not consider them simply because of that fact.

Chipboard is the rough stuff, same idea as mdf, but not finely ground. I remember my first $40 speakers were chipboard, and the wood seems to resonate far worse.

And it is a shame that B&O hasn't released a substantial product in years. Being a design based company they are not on the cutting edge, and have a very slow time to market. B&O still has my respect becauese they don't market themselves as a be all and end all hifi company, and their target market is mainly upperclass home owners, professionals, and architects. Plus don't their phones look sexy

Quote:

Originally Posted by russdog snip

Oh I don't think we are misunderstanding the target market, just saying that for half the money you could get something twice as good elsewhere for most of their products, and also know that your money is more likely to end up in the R&D department rather than marketing department.

 

[Spareribs]

OK, I want to say that I am not a Bose basher but.....

I just did an A/B comparison with a Bose Acoustic Wave CD player/speaker system and a cheap RCA boom box that costs around $150.

The Acoustic wave player was noticably boxy sounding, if you know what I mean. It had that plastic box tone which was shockingly noticable for an expensive product. Maybe this is an older model I don't know but for the high price, there is no excuse to have this flaw. Also the mid range is weak too.

The RCA boom box is a little bigger but the sound is definetly more refined compared to the Acoustic wave system.

On the positive side of the Bose Acoustic wave system, it is smaller and the volume is strong which is great for parties. The bass is pretty decent. For the price, it's a steal...........as in the company is stealing from you! I am appalled by the inferior sound of this system and price. I believe it's around $1000! Yet a $150 RCA boom box is noticably better in sound. Yikes!

But in defense of Bose, their small clock radio is not bad for a clock radio even though it is pricey. I do like that product for a small bedroom. If it were cheaper, I would buy it though.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garbz Nope not the paper cone drivers, the foam surrounds. Nearly every audiophile speaker these days regardless of the cone has something other than foam surrounds. These are a relic of ancient times, and while they may be fine in Europe foam surrounds last only a few years in our 35degrees 100% humidity weather.

You have to know that over the years, in addition to rolled foam, speaker cones have had surrounds made of folded paper, rolled cloth and rolled butyl rubber (with rolled butyl rubber being the predominant choice of audiophile speaker manufacturers these days, and rolled cloth being the predominant choice of many low-end manufacturers).

With all that said, I will agree with most of the other replies (not counting those which said Bose is the worst ever). I have personally listened to Bose equipment, and I will have to say that they are not horrible per se - but they're just seriously overpriced for their sound quality.

 

[russdog]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garbz Oh I don't think we are misunderstanding the target market, just saying that for half the money you could get something twice as good...

What cans are superior for airplane use than the Bose's. We're not talking IEM's, we're talking cans that have the following five properties:

1. They perform effective noise cancellation and are otherwise suitable for airplane use;
2. They provide sound superior to the Bose;
3. They are within the awareness of the target audience, i.e., no sleuthing required to learn about them; rather, they are actively and successfully marketed to the intended audience;
4. They come from a company that is perceived as successful, established, and reliable;
5. They are half the price.

There is no such product. If there were, people would buy them.

There are many ways to get better sound if you are listening in a non-hostile environment (noise-wise) without a stranger sitting next to you, especially if you don't mind sticking IEM's inside your head. But for the frequent air travelers who are the mainstays of the Bose market, what are these half-priced products that are better airplane accessories, are well-known and effectively marketed, and are readily available?

Bose cans are good at doing what they do. I don't want them, and neither do you. But that's because we don't have this set of requirements. If you're a headphone freak, then bashing Bose cans (and their customers) is like getting all uppity because a hammer is no good at being a screwdriver. Both are tools. Which one is better? That depends on what you're trying to do. It's silly to say that a product that does its job well is a bad product just because it does a job different than the job you want done. Do you criticize hammers (and ridicule people who use them) because hammers make lousy screwdrivers? It's the same thing.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Garbz and also know that your money is more likely to end up in the R&D department rather than marketing department.

Right. That's how you choose products, is it? You see who sends the greatest portion of sales income to their R&D department, and then you seek out their products? (I don't think so.) If that were really true, then you'd probably buy Bose. They have done more innovative R&D on various things than any company I can think of: from psycho-acoustics to (get this!) automobile suspensions. Really, they have.

Bose just isn't concerned with us, that's all. Look, I like New Orleans food, and I don't eat baby food... but I don't bash Gerbers for making little jars of strained peas instead of large pots of great, scary gumbo

 

[Garbz]

I'm focusing on Bose the audio product provider, you are focusing Bose the manufacturer of Triport headphones. Having one good product dose not make you an acceptable seller. Oh and btw sony made a lovely set of noise cancelling headhpones a few years ago. Didn't sound quite as good as the Bose, but then cost a smitten in comparison.

Also you are missing the point... again. I hate bose for the simple reason. The sell crap for overinflated costs. I would have no problem if the items were cheaper. The result (approx 30% of total income) goes into marketing brainwashing the general public into thinking their devices are good so they can charge a higher price... hangon that sounds like a cable manufacturer.

I am not saying that they don't do R&D, and the Bose Magelevation suspention is truely fanastic innovation, I just disagree with their business and marketing practices like I disagree with cable manufacturers selling their wares with a 1000% markup and claiming it's to cover construction R&D and all that. I certainly do not choose products based on their r&d budget!

Btw 10points to those who can figure out what the first PHD thesis Dr Bose submitted was about

 

[Laptopia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by russdog AFAIK, the main reason people bash Bose around here is that they like feeling oh-so-superior and, in the service of that, they fail to apply basic common sense. The Bose headphones are not intended for the same purpose that most people here use cans for. They are intended for use in noisy airplane environments, and I'll betcha anything that that's what 98% of them are used for. For somebody who lives on airplanes, who has an "ok" consumer-grade stereo at home and a stock car radio, the Bose headphone make a great deal of sense. Not everybody wants to stick IEM's in their ears. Not everybody wants to try umpteen different things from obscure-to-them brands. Not everybody wants to waste a zillion hours researching obscure things online. Bose noise-cancelling cans would be perfect for my brother. My brother is neither an idiot nor a fool. He just has a different relationship with listening to music than I do, and he wouldn't mind spending $300 to make airplane travel nicer for himself. The people who I think are idiots and fools are the people who would diss him for buying something that serves his needs very well, and that does not require him to spend a zillion hours online researching things. He has better things to do with his time. There is no other product that is designed for use on noisy airplanes from a manufacturer who bothers to try to attract customers. If there was a different product that did what the Bose cans do, only better, and that was marketed competently so that people knew about them, they would provide stiff competition to Bose. But no other company targets this market with a better product and competent marketing. In the face of that simple fact, what do some people here do? They make ridiculous posts that pretend that Bose cans are used for the same purpose that other cans are used for. Why? So they can diss others and feel superior. It's rather small-minded and adolescent, if you ask me. Not to mention, just plain dumb: Bose cans aren't so much audio accessories as they are airplane accessories. Evidently, some people here don't know the difference.

Let's imagine that, If your brother bought Bose noise-cancelling cans for plane travel, he did so for sound reduction and isolation. He could have achieved the same or better effect with a set of $70 IEMs, iM716s for example, but Bose takes his $300 for the same thing. But he doesn't know this, if he's the average consumer, because Bose marketing has been in his face for twenty years.

This fact causes the team on this board to dis' Bose.

 

[CarbonTi]

With all the snake oil and smoke & mirrors elements that are rife in the audio industry and in audiophile's psyches, how can anyone possibly take a clean shot at Bose for what they do? Indignance at company that sells overpriced gear coming from inhabitants of the land of $25 green magic markers and $500/meter interconnects? A Bose buyer is as justified in believing their recent purchase is "the best" as much as any audiophile who gushes platitudes at their current flavor-of-the-month.

Bose is much smarter than to play in a market as limited as audio, rather IMO they providing accoutrements of the upwards mobility lifestyle with audio as the carrier frequency. Sound is secondary to the desire and imagery of owning the "best" (the perception of audio nirvana without the work). Consumerism at its finest. In this audiophiles may not cast the first stone. At a different level, haven't all of us known someone with a fully matched system from a single high-end manufacturer (ex: Krell or Levinson) also looking to acheive audio nirvana without the work?

I don't support Bose anymore than owning their clock radio. The people Bose target to sell to isn't you or me or anyone else that has more than a casual interest in audio. Taking pot shots at either them ot the folks that think Bose is good gear is just audio snobbery.

 

[Puffin]

A lot of people think "gimmicks" are cool. You go into a Bose store and you hear o.k music with a deep throbbing bass. But you say to yourself, "that bass can' t be coming from those little cubes " Can it ? Oh no Sir, you have to have a big subwoofer hidden somewhere in the room. Wow, Cool I must have one of those to impress the neighbours..........

 

[Jahn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by russdog AFAIK, the main reason people bash Bose around here is that they like feeling oh-so-superior and, in the service of that, they fail to apply basic common sense.

Oh, for a second there I thought you were describing the people who actually buy Bose products.

 

[russdog]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob ♫ Let's imagine that, If your brother bought Bose noise-cancelling cans for plane travel, he did so for sound reduction and isolation. He could have achieved the same or better effect with a set of $70 IEMs, iM716s for example, but Bose takes his $300 for the same thing. But he doesn't know this, if he's the average consumer, because Bose marketing has been in his face for twenty years. This fact causes the team on this board to dis' Bose.

So, let me get this straight: For all the Bose-bashing hot-air, the best answer you've got is that my brother is an idiot because he doesn't want to stick IEM's inside his head?

I'll ask the question again: For all those claiming that there are better, cheaper options, what are all these better-and-cheaper options? The best answer anybody has offered is a model of Sony cans that sound worse than Bose and isn't even manufactured anymore. Jeez. Why don't you just face facts: For the 5 requirements I laid out earlier, there are no better options. (Grado could probably make some, but that would require some actual serious R&D, and not just high-profit upscale-niche-marketing, so that won't happen

The only company serving this market with active, continuous R&D is Bose. Too bad the facts don't jive with the arbitrary biases of anti-Bose fanatics.

 

[VicAjax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by russdog So, let me get this straight: For all the Bose-bashing hot-air, the best answer you've got is that my brother is an idiot because he doesn't want to stick IEM's inside his head? I'll ask the question again: For all those claiming that there are better, cheaper options, what are all these better-and-cheaper options? The best answer anybody has offered is a model of Sony cans that sound worse than Bose and isn't even manufactured anymore. Jeez. Why don't you just face facts: For the 5 requirements I laid out earlier, there are no better options. (Grado could probably make some, but that would require some actual serious R&D, and not just high-profit upscale-niche-marketing, so that won't happen The only company serving this market with active, continuous R&D is Bose. Too bad the facts don't jive with the arbitrary biases of anti-Bose fanatics.

that's an easy one:

Sennheiser PXC-250

MSRP $149 - exactly half the price of the Bose QC2. active noise cancellation, closed, comfortable, easy to find. in fact, i've seen them go for less than $100.

i tried both the PXC-250 and the QC2 head to head, and while the Sennheiser aren't quite as sensitive as the Bose, it easily beats it in every category: sound and build quality as well as comfort. YMMV.

for another $50, the Sennheiser PXC-300 are even better.

so, do i win a booby prize?

 

[russdog]

Quote:

Originally Posted by VicAjax that's an easy one: Sennheiser PXC-250 MSRP $149 - exactly half the price of the Bose QC2. active noise cancellation, closed, comfortable, easy to find. in fact, i've seen them go for less than $100. i tried both the PXC-250 and the QC2 head to head, and while the Sennheiser aren't quite as sensitive as the Bose, it easily beats it in every category: sound and build quality as well as comfort. YMMV. for another $50, the Sennheiser PXC-300 are even better. so, do i win a booby prize?

Well, you should win some kind of prize for offerring a constructive suggestion, instead of the usual blind ravings

Too bad Senn doesn't market effectively to the airline traveler audience.

 

[VicAjax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by russdog Well, you should win some kind of prize for offerring a constructive suggestion, instead of the usual blind ravings Too bad Senn doesn't market effectively to the airline traveler audience.

must be too busy spending their money on actual R&D

seriously though... sennheiser is a very big company, and their noise-cancelling cans are not at all hard to find. they're available at crutchfield, circuit city, amazon... i first heard them at a brookstone in a mall... not exactly specialty boutiques.

bose simply spends far more money on marketing than any other audio products company... so it's the easy answer for the lazy consumer. not that i'm accusing your brother of being lazy, but just a little bit of research... just one little google search... will reveal more options than bose.

 

[Mikey01]

Bose sounds crappy, is overpriced, and sucks. Outside of that they are nice.