[gregorio]

You're making too many assumptions about the artist and engineer.  I'll end it at that.

Not really but then I'm an artist and an engineer and I've worked with other artists and engineers for over 30 years, so maybe this gives me some insight!

G

 

[funkmeister]

I think I'm starting to feel comfortable in this thread. I am highly critical of bass emphasis and much prefer my AKG sound to anything else I've ever listened to. I can fall asleep with 'em on because they just sound so nice. I recently heard that AKG's K272HD had better bass than my K171 which is even too lean for me... but after a thorough evaluation, I'm keeping the K171. After burn-in, the bass difference on the K272HD dried up but the overall sound was a little too loose and floppy so I just kept the K171 because it was better composed.
 
Funny thing is that they both use the exact same driver.

 

[TMRaven]

Pads and damping make huge differences in headphones.  It's how a lot of companies get away with having headphones with extremely different sounds but with the same drivers.

 

[CatboyMac]

The analogy itself falls apart when you realize that most paintings from the Renaissance era are faded, and few truly look like they were intended to look. The Mona Lisa in-person is a bit like an old LP or cassette tape; a faded representation of what it was originally meant to be. People still love the Mona Lisa, though.

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

Quote:

It's not rocket science, a flat system is going to get you reasonably, if not very, close most of the time. A deliberately coloured system (say one with the bass cranked right up) is not going to get you close most of the time.
G

Yea for mastering that makes sense but I was merely talking about listening not producing, I also want the producers to go with as "flat" system as possible (as it's just logical that the flat/middlepath is what will work best for the broad masses and there simply have to be some kind of standards to follow) so then I can add that same settings I prefer ontop of that and if every1 used different kinds of settings when producing I'd also have to change my headphones or settings depending on which producer I'm listening to...
 

 

[gregorio]

Yea for mastering that makes sense but I was merely talking about listening not producing, I also want the producers to go with as "flat" system as possible (as it's just logical that the flat/middlepath is what will work best for the broad masses and there simply have to be some kind of standards to follow) so then I can add that same settings I prefer ontop of that and if every1 used different kinds of settings when producing I'd also have to change my headphones or settings depending on which producer I'm listening to...
 

Commercial studios, both mix studios and mastering studios do have a kind of standard they follow. Ultimately though, what's the point if you're going to ignore our intentions and change it all anyway?

G

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

Quote:

Commercial studios, both mix studios and mastering studios do have a kind of standard they follow. Ultimately though, what's the point if you're going to ignore our intentions and change it all anyway?
G

Because I care about others too? I can change it myself with the headphones or equipment I use for my own taste, don't want others to be suffering for that prefer a balanced response. You have to set a rule to follow of some kind and the balanced route makes the most sense when mastering.
 

 

[ManMythLegend]

If you go to the Louvre and look at the Mona Lisa, maybe you don't get "pleasure" from her smile, do you think to yourself that you know better than Leonardo DaVinci and repaint it? Alternatively you could try to appreciate and understand why DaVinci painted the Mona Lisa with that smile. That's the point of art, to try and understand the intentions of the artist, to experience what the artist is trying to convey. In my opinion, you are missing the whole point of art and music if all you want to do is reduce it to just "best possible pleasure". There's far more complex and stimulating emotional experiences to be gained from listening to music than just pleasure. Each to his own though.
G

Just about the worst comparison one can make. Glad to see "artist" snobbishness carries over to the A in AV as the V is full of them.

Then you don't understand the point of mastering. You think you know better than the mastering engineer or DaVinci (for example) then go right ahead, colour your system (or go and view DaVinci artworks wearing pink tinted sunglasses) and forget about fidelity. Your choice but then I consider that view to be "rather silly".
G

You dont understand the point of art/media or personal taste. It is meant to be enjoyed and consumed. PERIOD. Everything has a baseline after that its up to the end user to decide for himself how or what they enjoy about it.
I cant stand listening to 128k mp3 on cheap apple earbuds on a limited use apple device. But if someone wants to do that great for them. I only get annoyed when they think theyre opinion or taste is more important than someone elses. Which is exactly what you are doing just from the snob side of the coin.
Everyone has there taste and most of all budget. To think everyone should be forced into purchasing the EXACT high end audio equipment an engineer used is ridiculous. I guess instead of going to see Springsteen at a local venue one should fly out to Wimbley otherwise risk getting ridiculed for not seeing the show as originally intended.

Commercial studios, both mix studios and mastering studios do have a kind of standard they follow. Ultimately though, what's the point if you're going to ignore our intentions and change it all anyway?
G

Yeah whats the point of a market of 100s of headphones each with there own unique sound signature ?
What would be the point of a forum discussing those ?
We should all have the same pair of headphones with the flattest sound possible and get rid of those EQ settings on audio SW and gear.

 

[Wingstrike]

Isnt this all a little off topic guys? Let's get back to why people like bass so much

 

[gregorio]

Nice job a complete misrepresentation of the facts there ManMythLegend, you don't sell cables do you? For example "To think everyone should be forced into purchasing the EXACT high end audio equipment an engineer used is ridiculous." - I agree it is ridiculous, so why are you saying it? You're certainly not quoting anything I've said.

All I've said is that we should look beyond simple titillation of our ears and actually appreciate the musical art, have some respect for the artists who created it instead of obliterating it by whacking up the bass. Maybe there's a good artistic reason to mix a track with less bass, maybe it's been done deliberately to create a musical effect. But you obviously don't care about the music, so long as you can enjoy a slammin bass. I want to try to get the point of the music, with whatever equipment I've got. This is not snobbishness, this is music appreciation. If you want to call me a snob though fine, I'd rather be a snob than a philistine.

G

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

Just cuz I like bass doesn't mean I don't want to hear anything else, I prefer lots of bass with as forward mids as possible while highs can stay relatively neutral or shouldn't at least exceed the mids in amplitude (maybe more like 1-3dB below the mids for a little warmer sound similar to LCD2). Usually some EQing is a must to get the optimal sound to me. I like a forward / in-your-face sound, the opposite of HD800, K70x, HD650 etc. Think Grados with like +10dB boost in the subbass range and possibly slightly tamed >6kHz range. I've simply learnt my preference from spending lots of time with EQing and testing headphones with different signatures. There's always that one preference I always seem to want to return to no matter how hard I'd try to appriciate something else, it just doesn't happen.

 

[gregorio]

You want the sound of your equipment exactly how you like it, I've go no problem with that, it's your choice. But I personally would call that gear appreciation, not music appreciation.

G

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

Quote:

But I personally would call that gear appreciation, not music appreciation.
G

That's very inaccurate. You have no idea how much I appriciate the work and music by my favorite DJs. I like it so much I keep spending more time on their facebook page than going out. I've bought their new tracks as well as donated some money once, is that 'gear appriciation'?
 
Besides it's not like the colorisation will make the music sound THAT much different. And also I wouldn't assume too much before you've heard it in person on my setup, I use a very strange setup so it's not like you can imagine how it sounds like as it's not a sound you can get without some tweaking (no headphone will sound like it out-of-box).

 

[whitefang]

I love bass very much
I love it flat and deep, not bloated

 

[bcasey25raptor]

Looks like i am alone in what i want.
 
I like my frequency response graphs to look like your going up a hill. Bass is the bottom of the hill. Mids are the hill itself. And the treble around 8khz is the top of the hill. Then after 8khz i like it to slightly drop down. I like treble a lot for some reason wen most people can't stand it. Bass just feels like it drowns out everything else to much. I am basing this off of the shure se215 and shure srh750dj which both had recessed vocals and guitars. I want vocals and guitars to be up front with drums and bass guitar to be slightly quieter. I have yet to hear a bassy headphone where i feel like the mids and treble isn't being muted.