[TheSloth]

I have a pair of K1000's that live in a budget second system on the other side of the pond, and have been trying to work out why they sound thin and somewhat sucked out.

The source is an old Marantz cheapo CD player, which from using it with other equipment has a warm and soupy kind of sound (low on detail, high on bloated bass). That is feeding a Musical Fidelity A1 integrated amplifier (pure class A) which in turn is feeding the K1K's.

The combination of a warm and soupy source, with a pure class A power amp should add up to a somewhat warm sound in my book, but yet it doesn't. It sounds somewhat shrill (not to the point that there is something wrong with the headphones, they just sound thin).

What gives? I've never heard K1K's beore these so I don't have a point of reference.

 

[PsychoZX]

Do you have another amp you can try with em? They certainly don't sound thin to me in my setup.

 

[Trogdor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSloth I have a pair of K1000's that live in a budget second system on the other side of the pond, and have been trying to work out why they sound thin and somewhat sucked out. The source is an old Marantz cheapo CD player, which from using it with other equipment has a warm and soupy kind of sound (low on detail, high on bloated bass). That is feeding a Musical Fidelity A1 integrated amplifier (pure class A) which in turn is feeding the K1K's.

The K1K is a very fickle headphone that requires a lot of power. Not all amps do it justice - the main reason why I sold mine. I've heard the K1K out of a bunch of different amps and very few really do it justice.

Also be aware that the K1K is very revealing and I'll bet ten to one, that your setup improves substantially if you replace that Marantz cheapo CDP. The treble is ESPECIALLY suceptible to a poor DAC.

Btw, I've voted the K1K as the most SENSITIVE headphone to source/amp combination - sometimes its just so night and day its not even funny.

 

[seacard]

The following are the potential responses that come directly from "Head-fi's Book of Quotes When Somebody Insults Your Favorite Headphone"

1. "Is the headphone burned in? ______ needs at least 100 more hours of burn-in than you currently have on it?" This can be used even if the headphone is 20 years old and has 3000 hours of playing time.

2. "You need a new amp and/or source." Don't worry if the OP has a $10,000 amp and a $15,000 CDP for a $100 headphone. Bonus points for throwing in the word synergy as well, since this means that the poster just doesn't have the right set-up to appreciate the greatness of the headphone.

3. "You are lucky that you don't like them. I wish I could stop appreciating their greatness and save money." This is a great insult and makes you superior to the poster in every way.

4. "You may want to consider a new cable." This answer should be used a last resort because it suggests that the headphone itself is not perfect in every way but NEEDS an upgrade. The best cable/interconnect to suggest is the Nordost Valhalla, or something equally expensive.

Hopefully one of those solutions will resolve the problem.

 

[TheSloth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsychoZX Do you have another amp you can try with em? They certainly don't sound thin to me in my setup.

The only other amp at home is a QUAD 99 Stereo, so I'll try that out when I get back there (UK) tomorrow, but the MF just seems like it should be ideal - somewhere around 20W into 8 ohms of pure class A circuitry. I know it's old, but it was cheap and looked like it was made for the K1K (that thing gets hot enough to fry an egg). The only problem with the A1 is that it seems to be quite current limited, in that its output decreases with impedance. The QUAD's output increases as impedance decreases, implying it has plenty of current capability so I'll report back on whether that makes a difference. Of course, the amp is in a system with a better source as well.

By the way I also have a pimeta-like (it's actually a pimeta, except with two seperate ground channels and dual mono connectors) amp, and was wondering what the most powerful output buffer would be to try to drive a K1K. It has a 24V PSU design with enough current for the job, but the buffers are currently double-stacked HA-5002's which won't do the job. Which buffer design has more hope of getting something out of a K1K?

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by seacard The following are the potential responses that come directly from "Head-fi's Book of Quotes When Somebody Insults Your Favorite Headphone" 1. "Is the headphone burned in? ______ needs at least 100 more hours of burn-in than you currently have on it?" This can be used even if the headphone is 20 years old and has 3000 hours of playing time. 2. "You need a new amp and/or source." Don't worry if the OP has a $10,000 amp and a $15,000 CDP for a $100 headphone. Bonus points for throwing in the word synergy as well, since this means that the poster just doesn't have the right set-up to appreciate the greatness of the headphone. 3. "You are lucky that you don't like them. I wish I could stop appreciating their greatness and save money." This is a great insult and makes you superior to the poster in every way. 4. "You may want to consider a new cable." This answer should be used a last resort because it suggests that the headphone itself is not perfect in every way but NEEDS an upgrade. The best cable/interconnect to suggest is the Nordost Valhalla, or something equally expensive. Hopefully one of those solutions will resolve the problem.

 

[lmilhan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by seacard The following are the potential responses that come directly from "Head-fi's Book of Quotes When Somebody Insults Your Favorite Headphone" 1. "Is the headphone burned in? ______ needs at least 100 more hours of burn-in than you currently have on it?" This can be used even if the headphone is 20 years old and has 3000 hours of playing time. 2. "You need a new amp and/or source." Don't worry if the OP has a $10,000 amp and a $15,000 CDP for a $100 headphone. Bonus points for throwing in the word synergy as well, since this means that the poster just doesn't have the right set-up to appreciate the greatness of the headphone. 3. "You are lucky that you don't like them. I wish I could stop appreciating their greatness and save money." This is a great insult and makes you superior to the poster in every way. 4. "You may want to consider a new cable." This answer should be used a last resort because it suggests that the headphone itself is not perfect in every way but NEEDS an upgrade. The best cable/interconnect to suggest is the Nordost Valhalla, or something equally expensive. Hopefully one of those solutions will resolve the problem.

WOW, and I thought I was a cynic.


Anyway.

The K1000s (to my ears) are fairly neutral sounding, which some may find 'thin' especially if one is used to (or prefers) a more colored presentation. They definately aren't Bass monsters by any stretch of the imagination (they do have a Bass roll-off that some have complained about). They are neutral, fast and quite detailed. Could simply be that they just aren't for you. No worries though, if you find they ultimately aren't your cup of tea, you will not have any problems selling or trading them.

For what it's worth, I drive my pair of K1000s with a Pass Labs Aleph 3 power amp. I have the spade connectors hooked directly up to the speaker lugs. I use my GS-1 as a pre-amp. I am using the stock cable that came with the headphones. I have the earspeakers adjusted such that they just barely touch my ears. Although the Bass has a great presence and is very tight and fast, it certainly isn't overwhelming. The last adjective that comes to my mind in describing the music that comes out of them in my rig would be 'thin'.

 

[Andrea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by seacard The following are the potential responses that come directly from "Head-fi's Book of Quotes When Somebody Insults Your Favorite Headphone" 1. "Is the headphone burned in? ______ needs at least 100 more hours of burn-in than you currently have on it?" This can be used even if the headphone is 20 years old and has 3000 hours of playing time. 2. "You need a new amp and/or source." Don't worry if the OP has a $10,000 amp and a $15,000 CDP for a $100 headphone. Bonus points for throwing in the word synergy as well, since this means that the poster just doesn't have the right set-up to appreciate the greatness of the headphone. 3. "You are lucky that you don't like them. I wish I could stop appreciating their greatness and save money." This is a great insult and makes you superior to the poster in every way. 4. "You may want to consider a new cable." This answer should be used a last resort because it suggests that the headphone itself is not perfect in every way but NEEDS an upgrade. The best cable/interconnect to suggest is the Nordost Valhalla, or something equally expensive. Hopefully one of those solutions will resolve the problem.

If it's cynism, it is righteous.


On a side note, I noticed that the K1000 is one headphone that generates those reactions much more easily than others. It appears that it has its hooligans here

 

[Audiofiler]

Quote:

Originally Posted by seacard The following are the potential responses that come directly from "Head-fi's Book of Quotes When Somebody Insults Your Favorite Headphone" 1. "Is the headphone burned in? ______ needs at least 100 more hours of burn-in than you currently have on it?" This can be used even if the headphone is 20 years old and has 3000 hours of playing time. 2. "You need a new amp and/or source." Don't worry if the OP has a $10,000 amp and a $15,000 CDP for a $100 headphone. Bonus points for throwing in the word synergy as well, since this means that the poster just doesn't have the right set-up to appreciate the greatness of the headphone. 3. "You are lucky that you don't like them. I wish I could stop appreciating their greatness and save money." This is a great insult and makes you superior to the poster in every way. 4. "You may want to consider a new cable." This answer should be used a last resort because it suggests that the headphone itself is not perfect in every way but NEEDS an upgrade. The best cable/interconnect to suggest is the Nordost Valhalla, or something equally expensive. Hopefully one of those solutions will resolve the problem.

This is hilarious...nice cans you have there..hardly roughing it in the hifi realm

 

[TheSloth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lmilhan WOW, and I thought I was a cynic. Anyway. The K1000s (to my ears) are fairly neutral sounding, which some may find 'thin' especially if one is used to (or prefers) a more colored presentation. They definately aren't Bass monsters by any stretch of the imagination (they do have a Bass roll-off that some have complained about). They are neutral, fast and quite detailed. Could simply be that they just aren't for you. No worries though, if you find they ultimately aren't your cup of tea, you will not have any problems selling or trading them. For what it's worth, I drive my pair of K1000s with a Pass Labs Aleph 3 power amp. I have the spade connectors hooked directly up to the speaker lugs. I use my GS-1 as a pre-amp. I am using the stock cable that came with the headphones. I have the earspeakers adjusted such that they just barely touch my ears. Although the Bass has a great presence and is very tight and fast, it certainly isn't overwhelming. The last adjective that comes to my mind in describing the music that comes out of them in my rig would be 'thin'.

Right, I don't expect them to be 'thin' by nature, and I'm a neutral freak too, but this isn't neutral, it is thin. That's why I posted this as a question rather than a criticism of the headphone. The problem with power amps is that is it very hard to know how they will react to a 120ohm load from their 8ohm spec sheet. It may be that the A1 just doesn't have the juice to power them, though it does have the potential to drive them to headphone damaging output levels (that is the part that confuses me - it certainly has power of one kind or another, but yet it is unable to fill out the sound).

 

[PeeeMeS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by seacard The following are the potential responses that come directly from "Head-fi's Book of Quotes When Somebody Insults Your Favorite Headphone" 1. "Is the headphone burned in? ______ needs at least 100 more hours of burn-in than you currently have on it?" This can be used even if the headphone is 20 years old and has 3000 hours of playing time. 2. "You need a new amp and/or source." Don't worry if the OP has a $10,000 amp and a $15,000 CDP for a $100 headphone. Bonus points for throwing in the word synergy as well, since this means that the poster just doesn't have the right set-up to appreciate the greatness of the headphone. 3. "You are lucky that you don't like them. I wish I could stop appreciating their greatness and save money." This is a great insult and makes you superior to the poster in every way. 4. "You may want to consider a new cable." This answer should be used a last resort because it suggests that the headphone itself is not perfect in every way but NEEDS an upgrade. The best cable/interconnect to suggest is the Nordost Valhalla, or something equally expensive. Hopefully one of those solutions will resolve the problem.

Even though K1000s one of my favorite headphones... I'd say that was spot on

 

[tkam]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSloth The only other amp at home is a QUAD 99 Stereo, so I'll try that out when I get back there (UK) tomorrow, but the MF just seems like it should be ideal - somewhere around 20W into 8 ohms of pure class A circuitry. I know it's old, but it was cheap and looked like it was made for the K1K (that thing gets hot enough to fry an egg).

I would certainly give another amp a try when you can, many power amps really struggle to put out clean power into the 120ohm load the k1k's present.

 

[lmilhan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSloth Right, I don't expect them to be 'thin' by nature, and I'm a neutral freak too, but this isn't neutral, it is thin. That's why I posted this as a question rather than a criticism of the headphone. The problem with power amps is that is it very hard to know how they will react to a 120ohm load from their 8ohm spec sheet. It may be that the A1 just doesn't have the juice to power them, though it does have the potential to drive them to headphone damaging output levels (that is the part that confuses me - it certainly has power of one kind or another, but yet it is unable to fill out the sound).

Hmmm that is perplexing then.

Regardless of what the cynics may say, I agree with one of the above posters that the K1000s are certainly very finicky when it comes to amplification. Also, I have only heard them with three different amplifiers (so my experience is limited): the T-Amp, which I wasn't crazy about, and in that application I would indeed use the words thin and shrill. The Singlepower PPX3 SLAM, which did a pretty admirable job, but I still felt that it didn't quite have the authority needed to do the K1000s justice. Then finally, the Aleph 3 and everything fell into place for me. Now the K1000s just 'sound right' to my ears.

You mentioned that you have another amp you can try. Since that will not cost you any cashola, it is certainly worth a shot!

Let us know how that works out for you, I would like to know what the outcome is for sure.

Good luck.

 

[MD1032]

I heard the K1000's at the meet and I was talking to a guy and we agreed that although they had a bad rep for having low bass, we felt they had plenty. Trust me, that meet was noisy, and I could feel the bass impacting me quite nicely! They were plugged into some monster amp, though, and I bet that's why.

They were uncomfortable as anything, though. I mean, yikes. My head is just too big I guess.

 

[vpivinylspinner]

I have not had my K1000s very long but I have found them to range from unbearably bright to very good based on the amp I am using them with. I have tried them with two Pass Labs amps (J and Aleph 30), my Halcro monoblocks, a Rotel 1080, a Rogue Audio Magnum 88 Tube Amp and my Melos and Dynahi headphone amps. The Dynahi and Melos don't have enough juice, the Rotel is painfully bright, the Rogue sounds very good. The Aleph amps really do make a huge difference in the sound quality of these headphones. Some sort of chemistry between these two as the K1000s sound excellent with Pass Labs amps. I intend to find a small class A amp soon for meets etc. to see if it is simply Class A amps that makes the difference or if it is something special with the Pass Labs. The Halcro amps have the same affect on the K1000s that they have on my speakers. Huge soundstage and information retrieval that is beyond belief. If they weren't so good with my speaker system, I might consider using them full time with my K1000s.