[russdog]

What about the design of iPods and other DAP's prevent modders from adding a digital-out connection? Is there no way to get to the internal DAC's output? Does everything live in a single chip? Are there no ways to get to the DAC's output pins? Or what?

 

[abs@nilenet.com]

Quote:

Originally Posted by russdog What about the design of iPods and other DAP's prevent modders from adding a digital-out connection? Is there no way to get to the internal DAC's output? Does everything live in a single chip? Are there no ways to get to the DAC's output pins? Or what?

I don't know if there is something specific in the design that is keeping people from adding digital outs other than room. IMHO, the lack of space inside today's smaller and smaller daps, voiding warranties, soldering skills needed to work on those tiny components, after-sale support, and parts/labor cost probably all contribute. I think that most people wouldn't want to spend more than they did for the DAP to have a digital out installed.

Once you get your dap modded, you can't send it back to the manufacturer for service. That is the big sticking point with me getting my 4g iPod modded. I am on my 4th iPod replacement from Apple which is not due to abuse or anything. Knowing my luck, as soon as I would get my iPod modded, it would break. So I would have to find what parts that I need from eBay or wherever on my own dime and send them off to Red Wine Audio along with my iPod to get replaced. Kudos to Vinnie for taking the time to do these repairs!

As you can see, there are many issues that need to be resolved before somone can make a business out of hacking/modding commercial daps. So far only Vinnie has taken that step.


Happy Listening!

 

[CSMR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by russdog What about the design of iPods and other DAP's prevent modders from adding a digital-out connection? Is there no way to get to the internal DAC's output? Does everything live in a single chip? Are there no ways to get to the DAC's output pins? Or what?

Some hp DAPs have optical out and a modded ipod would not be competitive.

 

[russdog]

Quote:

Originally Posted by abs@nilenet.com I don't know if there is something specific in the design that is keeping people from adding digital outs other than room. IMHO, the lack of space inside today's smaller and smaller daps, voiding warranties, soldering skills needed to work on those tiny components, after-sale support, and parts/labor cost probably all contribute. I think that most people wouldn't want to spend more than they did for the DAP to have a digital out installed. Once you get your dap modded, you can't send it back to the manufacturer for service. That is the big sticking point with me getting my 4g iPod modded. I am on my 4th iPod replacement from Apple which is not due to abuse or anything. Knowing my luck, as soon as I would get my iPod modded, it would break. So I would have to find what parts that I need from eBay or wherever on my own dime and send them off to Red Wine Audio along with my iPod to get replaced. Kudos to Vinnie for taking the time to do these repairs! As you can see, there are many issues that need to be resolved before somone can make a business out of hacking/modding commercial daps. So far only Vinnie has taken that step.

Yeah, all that's true, but still.. Many modders don't care about that stuff, they just wanna make stuff perform better. And I've never once read of anybody who has taken a DAP and added a digital output, so that makes me think there is something that prevents them from doing that. I'm just trying to find out if my assumption is correct or not, that's all...

 

[russdog]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSMR Some hp DAPs have optical out and a modded ipod would not be competitive.

I thought it was just the old out-of-production HP's. Am I wrong about that?

AFAIK, whether it's competitive price-wise is a non-issue for many modders. When I say "modders", I'm not talking about people who have a business doing it. I'm just talking about electronics freaks who like to fiddle with stuff. I assume that, if it *could* be done with an iPod, somebody would have done it and reported on their experience. But I have seen zero posts anywhere about that.

So, I'm not asking if you can make a business case for it. I'm just asking if it is impossible to do.

 

[labrat]

Deleted.

 

[PeeeMeS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by labrat The discontinued iRiver iHP/H1x0 players do have optical S/PDIF -out:

Now you've got me extra extra extra curious

Where'd you get that (I'm assuming rechargeable) battery pack thingy
Is it 12 or 24 volts?

 

[drizek]

from here it just seems like it was a DIY.

The iriver h120 costs $120 on ebay. It would cost at least twice that much to add optical-out to an ipod so whats the point? You can even upgrade the hdd to 30gb if you want and still come out ahead. THe only thing youd be missing is hte color screen, but i dont think anyone here cares about that.

 

[redshifter]

i toyed with some homemade external battery packs, but could not get the correct voltage and amperage. how did you do it, labrat?

oh yeah, iriver h120/h140 has the optical out. get that.

 

[Chef Medeski]

Quote:

Originally Posted by russdog What about the design of iPods and other DAP's prevent modders from adding a digital-out connection? Is there no way to get to the internal DAC's output? Does everything live in a single chip? Are there no ways to get to the DAC's output pins? Or what?

Well for the iPod... the Wolfson chip outputs its digital signal in an incomprehensible code. Rick ? who does the iMods tried to build a digital out but quickly found out that the code wasn't one he knew. So, its not impossible, just not enough pressure to crack the code. Especially when an iModded iPod sounds so good already.

 

[labrat]

Deleted.

 

[redshifter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by labrat The battery-pack is an 10 cell AA-pack, giving 12 Volts. The AOS Piccolo runs on anything from a 9 Volt battery up to 12 Volts, and this battery pack with Alkaline cells gives around 50 hours runtime with the DAC. Using rechargeables, somewhat shorter runtime.

thanks. i guess the sony d777 is pickier about voltage.

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by russdog What about the design of iPods and other DAP's prevent modders from adding a digital-out connection? Is there no way to get to the internal DAC's output? Does everything live in a single chip? Are there no ways to get to the DAC's output pins? Or what?

Actually, they'd want to get to the DAC's input pins. The output signal of a DAC is analog, not digital.

 

[damballah]

I believe the Wolfson that's used in the iPODs is actually a MP3 Decoder / DAC all in one chip, there's no digital output actually available. It's MP3 in to line out unfortunately.

 

[russdog]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch Actually, they'd want to get to the DAC's input pins. The output signal of a DAC is analog, not digital.

My brain knew that, but my typing-fingers didn't