Why are IEMs expensive?
Dec 9, 2011 at 7:00 PM Post #106 of 140


Quote:
 
It seems iXpertMan has left us.
 
Why was he fixated on the Westone UM1 or UM2 anyway?  He thinks they're highly overpriced metal and bit of plastic, and they aren't even popular IEM's in sound-quality lol, who talks about the UM1? I think it's a pretty weak IEM.
 
Despite all these answers, I'm sure he'll buy his overpriced UM2's for xmas anyway, it seems he only came to head-fi to share his knowledge that we are fools buying overpriced garbage and we don't know how to use an equalizer.
 


As you know i got the w4 and love it but then again that is my first high end IEM ever. But if you said the westone is over price garbage then i i'm in for a real treat with the other good brands yet?
Please listed out those IEM you know that are better then the westone with price limite at $400.
Thank you
 
 
 
Dec 9, 2011 at 7:12 PM Post #107 of 140
Quote:
As you know i got the w4 and love it but then again that is my first high end IEM ever. But if you said the westone is over price garbage then i i'm in for a real treat with the other good brands yet?
Please listed out those IEM you know that are better then the westone with price limite at $400.
Thank you
 


Hello Hagan,
 
I don't think Westone is overpriced garbage.
 
I haven't heard the W4 myself, I'm sure it's a good IEM, if you want to try another 4-driver under $400 there is the Sony XBA-4 being released this month.
 
 
 
Dec 9, 2011 at 7:29 PM Post #108 of 140


Quote:
As you know i got the w4 and love it but then again that is my first high end IEM ever. But if you said the westone is over price garbage then i i'm in for a real treat with the other good brands yet?
Please listed out those IEM you know that are better then the westone with price limite at $400.
Thank you
 
 


Imo, the only IEM I heard that tops the W4 is the TF10 but it has a different sound signature. 
 
 
Dec 9, 2011 at 7:44 PM Post #109 of 140


Quote:
Hello Hagan,
 
I don't think Westone is overpriced garbage.
 
I haven't heard the W4 myself, I'm sure it's a good IEM, if you want to try another 4-driver under $400 there is the Sony XBA-4 being released this month.
 
 


I got my W4 for $350 from earphonesolutions, while I dont think it's overpriced, but comparing to other IEMs, the marginal benefit is pretty low. after you pass like $250
 
 
Dec 9, 2011 at 7:52 PM Post #110 of 140
Dec 9, 2011 at 8:20 PM Post #112 of 140
People is willing to pay for designer t-shirt for over $100... To be honest, t-shirt cost only about $2-10(depend on quality of material) to make and another $1 to ship... I guess people pay for sound not the cost... IEM cost very little to make to be honest... 
 
Dec 9, 2011 at 9:14 PM Post #113 of 140
So... did the OP notice those posts wherein people listed prices for balanced armatures?  And is he aware of the fact that you'd need the additional armatures in each ear?  As in, adding a $15 armature to an IEM is, in fact, a $30 expense? 
 
Also, I made an elegant PC in a Lian Li case that outperforms any Mac under $3000 for less than half that.  I find Windows 7 easier to use than Mac OSX and better suited to my needs.  Unlike the OP, I know exactly why my PC cost what it did because I researched and selected every component in it. 
 
I'm sorry, I usually don't engage in threads like this, but Jesus Christ.
 
Dec 9, 2011 at 10:03 PM Post #114 of 140


Quote:
Hello Hagan,
 
I don't think Westone is overpriced garbage.
 
I haven't heard the W4 myself, I'm sure it's a good IEM, if you want to try another 4-driver under $400 there is the Sony XBA-4 being released this month.
 
 



i will hang on and enjoy the W4 for few more months then i'll sell it and try the sony as you have suggested. THis is the only way i can get to try other high end IEM in short time  :=)
Thanks
 
 
Dec 10, 2011 at 9:54 AM Post #116 of 140


Quote:
 
It seems iXpertMan has left us.
 
Why was he fixated on the Westone UM1 or UM2 anyway?  He thinks they're highly overpriced metal and bit of plastic, and they aren't even popular IEM's in sound-quality lol, who talks about the UM1? I think it's a pretty weak IEM.
 
Despite all these answers, I'm sure he'll buy his overpriced UM2's for xmas anyway, it seems he only came to head-fi to share his knowledge that we are fools buying overpriced garbage and we don't know how to use an equalizer.
 


Nobody left, I just read what you guys have to say without writing a reply.
I am interested in those two in particular (W1 and W2) as they are within my price range and come from a good brand, also they don't seem to be having any bad issues (as it seems from Head-Fi forums).
I'd love to get the W2 as it seems to be obviously better in SQ (and with 2 drivers), but my Dad doesn't allow me says "You won't hear the difference." (and probably he's right). But I still like to think that there is a difference which I'll notice.
 
However I was just thinking about all the SQ you guys have been mentioning. You can hear this difference in a quite room where you're all alone, and no outside noise, but when you use IEMs outside where there's lots of noise you won't hear the difference, so the question is why spend the money when you won't even hear that difference most of the time???
 
About the most of armature drivers you reminded me that there is one is each ear which I completely forgot about, but still that is not enough. I mean a normal person can buy the driver for 30$, but a company buys directly and thousands each time, therefore the cost can be dramatically reduced, most of the time it's halved (so 15$ minimum).
 
I agree Mac and Apple are probably the same thing, but since I can easily (and so can many others) see and feel the difference it seems very worth the cost.
 
 
Quote:
So... did the OP notice those posts wherein people listed prices for balanced armatures?  And is he aware of the fact that you'd need the additional armatures in each ear?  As in, adding a $15 armature to an IEM is, in fact, a $30 expense? 
 
Also, I made an elegant PC in a Lian Li case that outperforms any Mac under $3000 for less than half that.  I find Windows 7 easier to use than Mac OSX and better suited to my needs.  Unlike the OP, I know exactly why my PC cost what it did because I researched and selected every component in it. 
 
I'm sorry, I usually don't engage in threads like this, but Jesus Christ.


How did you manage that? Can you give me a few specs of your PC (HD size and speed, graphics, screen size and resolution and RAM), just out of curiosity. You just need to understand a Mac and then you'll get used to it and never go back to Windows again (unless you want to play Games or need to use a special application).
 
Dec 10, 2011 at 10:35 AM Post #117 of 140

 
Quote:
 
However I was just thinking about all the SQ you guys have been mentioning. You can hear this difference in a quite room where you're all alone, and no outside noise, but when you use IEMs outside where there's lots of noise you won't hear the difference, so the question is why spend the money when you won't even hear that difference most of the time???
 

 
 
That's why good seal is extremely important.

About the most of armature drivers you reminded me that there is one is each ear which I completely forgot about, but still that is not enough. I mean a normal person can buy the driver for 30$, but a company buys directly and thousands each time, therefore the cost can be dramatically reduced, most of the time it's halved (so 15$ minimum).
 

 
Why 15$? That number seems very odd, why not 1$?
 
How did you manage that? Can you give me a few specs of your PC (HD size and speed, graphics, screen size and resolution and RAM), just out of curiosity. You just need to understand a Mac and then you'll get used to it and never go back to Windows again (unless you want to play Games or need to use a special application).

 
Hate to say it but with 3 cool grand you can easily slip in server cpu, or even Intel's flagship work desk CPU for the sake of increasing E-Peen size. Macs use intel CPUs too, but at what cost? Hardware wise, I could make exact same CPU, have better or equivalent hardware but with less money. Price to performance ratio is much more reasonable with a Windows.
 
I just hope you realize, iMac series uses mobile GPU. You know the same thing you see in laptops around 700-1k range. Even if you were to bring in Mac Pro, so what? Do you honestly believe that Nvidia and AMD will develop a GPU specifically for Mac Pro? Heavens no, it uses same GPU that goes in Windows desktops. 
 
Sure, amount of RAM may bottleneck your rig or whatnot, but these days no one really gives a flying eff about RAM since it's so cheap. Again, unless you're running on a server or a work desk CPU you won't need over 8gb.
 
HDD speed will not effect the overall performance unless you're opening programs or moving large files. Even then, it will cost the same whether you're running on Windows or OSX.
 
Now that's out of the way, about the monitor. Again, why would you need to know the size of the monitor? That will hardly effect the performance, that's like asking a guy "Well, I think my iPod will have better RMAA chart than your Clip+ because my iPod has bigger screen"
 
Case closed.
 
 
Dec 10, 2011 at 11:22 AM Post #118 of 140


Quote:
However I was just thinking about all the SQ you guys have been mentioning. You can hear this difference in a quite room where you're all alone, and no outside noise, but when you use IEMs outside where there's lots of noise you won't hear the difference, so the question is why spend the money when you won't even hear that difference most of the time???
 
About the most of armature drivers you reminded me that there is one is each ear which I completely forgot about, but still that is not enough. I mean a normal person can buy the driver for 30$, but a company buys directly and thousands each time, therefore the cost can be dramatically reduced, most of the time it's halved (so 15$ minimum).


If you get a good seal and if the IEMs you use have good isolation, you'll hear able to hear all the music AS IF you were alone in a quiet room, even in a noisy plane or in a metro.
 
As for cost, I think you have no idea how procurement works.
Contrary to what you think, not all parts are made in China by the ton and using underpaid employees. Some of them are special orders or even small series with manual or semi-manual processes. The smaller the series, the higher the unit cost.
 
And concerning IEMs for audiophile, we're not talking mass production, unlike PC/Mac parts for example.
To cut part prices significantly you'd have to buy tens of thousend parts regularly, only the largest IEM manufacturers can hope to achieve that, and mainly for low-end models.
 
And to end it, maybe you skipped previous posts, but other than parts, final prices include R&D, functional costs, quality, maintenance, shipping, marketing, aftersale (...) and for each of these you have salaries, equipment etc etc.
Evaluating cost based only on raw materials or parts is just nonsense.
Profits are still there of course, and they're usually percentages, not fixed margins. After all, high-end products usually requires more efforts, and sell less, why wouldn't you gain more per unit sold?
 
 
Dec 10, 2011 at 11:38 AM Post #119 of 140


Quote:
 
 
 
That's why good seal is extremely important.
 
Why 15$? That number seems very odd, why not 1$?
 
 
Hate to say it but with 3 cool grand you can easily slip in server cpu, or even Intel's flagship work desk CPU for the sake of increasing E-Peen size. Macs use intel CPUs too, but at what cost? Hardware wise, I could make exact same CPU, have better hardware but cost a lot less. Price to performance ratio is much higher and more reasonable with Intel since 2500k is only around 200 USD and performs so well.
 
Graphics? What kind of terminology is that? Surely you meant GPU. I just hope you realize, iMac series uses GPU mobile series, you know the same thing you see in laptops around 700-1k range. Even if you were to bring in Mac Pro, so what? Do you honestly believe that Nvidia and AMD will develop a GPU specifically for Mac Pro? Heavens no, it uses same GPU that goes in Windows desktops. 
 
RAM? Are you new to computer world or something?  Sure, amount of RAM may bottleneck your rig or whatnot, but these days no one really gives a flying eff about RAM, not to mention they are dirt cheap. 
 
HDD speed will not affect the overall performance unless you're opening programs or moving large files. Even then, it will cost the same whether you're running on Windows or OSX.
 
Now that's out of the way, about the monitor. Again, why would you need to know the size of the monitor? That will hardly effect the performance, that's like asking a guy "Well, I think my iPod will have better RMMA chart than your Clip+ because my iPod has bigger screen"
 
Case closed.
 


Yes I know the good seal is important, however your ears are not the only things which allow you to hear. Your entire body especially your head can too pick-up vibrations therefore you can feel the sound without your ears. The low end sound (<1Khz) will still go through, surely the loudness of it will decrease but it will still be present and you'll hear it. When you walk outside in the city (around 70-80 db) sure the IEMs will decrease this to around 40-30 db (at best), but that's only though the ears, your head will still work as normal and will disturb your music experience. Really doubt that you will be able to tell the difference there and then.
The armature could cost the company 1$, but we don't know, so I said 15$ for example.
 
The components used obviously are the same, but where the Mac shines and a PC doesn't is the software and design.
The iMac uses a mobile series so what? It gets the job done and is fast. This also makes it small (dimension).
Everyone uses the word 'Graphics' when they talk about the GPU or can just say graphics card. What's wrong with that?
RAM is 50 Euro for 4GB (1333Mhz), not what I'll call cheap. And it does matter if you run many programs at one time, especially if you run a virtual machine.
I was wondering about the HD size and speed, the size information is obvious and speed is important to open files quicker, especially if you have a SolidState-Drive which makes it 'lightning fast'.
The display matters in size to see how much it costs, same with the resolution.
All the information was just curiosity.
Just took a look at a Sony laptop in comparison to the MacBook Pro and the difference was 300$, but the Sony had HD screen, more RAM, more HDD space and 500MB more graphics. So when you buy something built as good as Apple's products it will save you that 500$, but I doubt that it will save you more when you want the same quality build. The Apple computers allow you to legally have Windows and Mac, but it's illegal to run a Mac on any other computer if it's not made by Apple.
LETS STOP TALKING MAC VS WINDOWS! (focus on IEMs)
 
 
Dec 10, 2011 at 11:46 AM Post #120 of 140


Quote:
If you get a good seal and if the IEMs you use have good isolation, you'll hear able to hear all the music AS IF you were alone in a quiet room, even in a noisy plane or in a metro.
 
As for cost, I think you have no idea how procurement works.
Contrary to what you think, not all parts are made in China by the ton and using underpaid employees. Some of them are special orders or even small series with manual or semi-manual processes. The smaller the series, the higher the unit cost.
 
And concerning IEMs for audiophile, we're not talking mass production, unlike PC/Mac parts for example.
To cut part prices significantly you'd have to buy tens of thousend parts regularly, only the largest IEM manufacturers can hope to achieve that, and mainly for low-end models.
 
And to end it, maybe you skipped previous posts, but other than parts, final prices include R&D, functional costs, quality, maintenance, shipping, marketing, aftersale (...) and for each of these you have salaries, equipment etc etc.
Evaluating cost based only on raw materials or parts is just nonsense.
Profits are still there of course, and they're usually percentages, not fixed margins. After all, high-end products usually requires more efforts, and sell less, why wouldn't you gain more per unit sold?
 


The good seal will isolate for ears from outside sound by about 20-30 db, but some sounds will be loud enough for you to hear them (city, plane, train etc...). Won't your head still pick-up all the loud noise since it's not isolated in any way?
I don't think I'll be able to believe you that when you have IEMs-on, with a good seal (even), that I'll hear no outside noise, until I actually buy my own IEMs. :D
 
I didn't skip any post I think (so far) and I know that money is spent on research and so on, but for me it seems like they want too much for that. For an example take the Westone 1, costs 100 EURO, 50% of that is spent on components at best (but probably way less), so they are telling me that the other 50% is their research and profit... for me that seems too much. But again I can't hear (I think) the difference between IEMs, so I'm probably wrong but still (my opinion).
And why would you make some parts outside of China, use the factories their to make your products cheap, common sense?
 
 

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