[some1]

Bringing things back on track, why don't we finish this thread?
 
You wanted to know why they are so expensive, well, they can be cheap, and they can be expensive.
 
You can buy $3 IEMs or $1350+ IEMs
 
$3 doesn't strike me as expensive does it you?
 
So, what type of IEMs do you want, flat?
 
Etymotic ER-4, Head-Direct RE0, Vsonic Gr07, Fischer Audio DBA-02, many will tear apart my suggestions, and many will suggest others
 
But in a few posts you will have the best choices
 
And better still, i bet somebody will know a very cheap, relatively flat IEM choice for you too
 
But these fairly flat IEMs, once you have them, may not actually provide the sound you were looking for anyway
 
 

 

[iXpertMan]

Quote:

 
1. What am I supposed to explain? It's a guy drawing on a whiteboard about how a crossover system works. The Westone 3 will have more sub-bass and more high-highs, but that's not the only reason you use multi-driver setups.
 
Custom IEM's with 6 drivers and expensive headphones usually don't have a flat frequency response, sometimes they do, but just look at the FR of the Tesla T1 or Sony XB1000, etc.
 
Music is an art and so is sound reproduction, the way you are thinking, we should all be using Etymotic ER-4 and near-field studio monitors, and everything else is pointless to you.
 
 
2. What about vinyl?
 
 

Yes, depends which IEM's though. 
 

1) The guy mentions that the point is to have a flat frequency response curve, this means that whatever signal it gets, it reproduces it exactly as it is, without any added amplitude, no matter where on the graph it is (if horizontal).
 
2) You say that the source barely matters when it comes to MP3 vs FLAC, and say that audio equipment is way more important. Firstly if the source is crap then the output is crap no matter what you do to it. Secondly if you have a Vinyl you will actually have constant sound, rather than in an MP3 or a FLAC which is 44,100 Hz/second. Therefore is the source is probably the most important part of the high quality process.
 
3) AGREE we should finish this thread. The idea was for me to find-out if I missed anything from the process and I didn't. The guys just want to make cash and since they have a small market to do that they just artificially charge us high prices, for some this might seem adequate and you're getting better sound, but for me it's still too much.
 
Also I am not saying in any way that I really want a FLAT IEM, just that this is what they all need to be, because if not what's the point of making an extremely accurate sound recording.
 
Can anyone please advice me on my purchase.
1) Westone 1 vs Westone 2, does it really cost the difference? (for noob)
2) Does Westone (any eartip, but not custom) provide as much isolation as Etymotic?
 
Thank You!

 

[kiteki]

 
Vinyl and FLAC is good for file integrity and 44,100Hz etc. but this is all theories on paper (and in your mind) if you have the first-hand experience you will realise that vinyl, vinyl->flac and vinyl->mp3 all sound almost exactly the same.
 
The audio equipment (sound-card / DAC, choice of speakers or choice of IEM, amplifier) sound 1 million times more different than FLAC and 192 MP3.
 
I like Flac and 24/96 recordings I'm just explaining to you it doesn't matter compared to the audio equipment, I don't need to explain it with mathematics it's like the sky is blue.
 
Another the sky is blue is that IEM's all sound very different, they also compete with full-size headphones, if you compare the Apple ADDIEM with the Westone UM3X you will hear the difference, you can't see that difference on paper or with some theories.
 

 
Vinyl and FLAC is good for file integrity and 44,100Hz etc. but this is all theories on paper (and in your mind) if you have the first-hand experience you will realise that vinyl, vinyl->flac and vinyl->mp3 all sound almost exactly the same.
 
The audio equipment (sound-card / DAC, choice of speakers or choice of IEM, amplifier) sound 1 million times more different than FLAC and 192 MP3.
 
I like Flac and 24/96 recordings I'm just explaining to you it doesn't matter compared to the audio equipment, I don't need to explain it with mathematics it's like the sky is blue.
 
Another the sky is blue is that IEM's all sound very different, if you compare the Apple ADDIEM with the Westone UM3X you will hear the difference, you can't see that difference on paper and with your theories.
 
Quote:

1) The guy mentions that the point is to have a flat frequency response curve, this means that whatever signal it gets, it reproduces it exactly as it is, without any added amplitude, no matter where on the graph it is (if horizontal).
 
[/]this is what they all need to be, because if not what's the point of making an extremely accurate sound recording.
 

If an IEM or headphone sounded so good that it could make everything sound exactly like real life, just like you put the IEM in and then it sounds like a real concert, then a horizontal line would be perfect if you want it to sound realistic, like a real concert.

 
In reality... there is no such IEM, as I have pointed out to you already you can't equalize a skullcandy to a horizontal line and it will suddenly sound like diamonds.
 
The Ultimate Ears UE18Pro isn't a horizontal line, if they have $30,000 of audio and manufacturing equipment and spent 5 years at university why aren't they making the horizontal lines? Lol.
 
 

 

[jaqueh]

Quote:

1) The guy mentions that the point is to have a flat frequency response curve, this means that whatever signal it gets, it reproduces it exactly as it is, without any added amplitude, no matter where on the graph it is (if horizontal).
 
2) You say that the source barely matters when it comes to MP3 vs FLAC, and say that audio equipment is way more important. Firstly if the source is crap then the output is crap no matter what you do to it. Secondly if you have a Vinyl you will actually have constant sound, rather than in an MP3 or a FLAC which is 44,100 Hz/second. Therefore is the source is probably the most important part of the high quality process.
 
3) AGREE we should finish this thread. The idea was for me to find-out if I missed anything from the process and I didn't. The guys just want to make cash and since they have a small market to do that they just artificially charge us high prices, for some this might seem adequate and you're getting better sound, but for me it's still too much.
 
Also I am not saying in any way that I really want a FLAT IEM, just that this is what they all need to be, because if not what's the point of making an extremely accurate sound recording.
 
Can anyone please advice me on my purchase.
1) Westone 1 vs Westone 2, does it really cost the difference? (for noob)
2) Does Westone (any eartip, but not custom) provide as much isolation as Etymotic?
 
Thank You!

if you heard something with a completely flat eq, im pretty sure your ears would sizzle off from the excruciating highs
 

 

[vrln]

This thread should be locked by mods. Obvious troll...

 

[Eric_C]

OP: the fact that you say you want flat, but you're considering Westone 1 and 2, means you don't even understand what a "flat" earphone sounds like--the W1 and 2 aren't flat. The entire W-series isn't, and was never designed to be.
It looks like you're just picking and choosing which answers to respond to, and looking for the out-of-context points to reinforce your own beliefs. Sorry for wasting your time with answers that you weren't really interested in, I'm out of this thread.

 

[iXpertMan]

Quote:

OP: the fact that you say you want flat, but you're considering Westone 1 and 2, means you don't even understand what a "flat" earphone sounds like--the W1 and 2 aren't flat. The entire W-series isn't, and was never designed to be.
It looks like you're just picking and choosing which answers to respond to, and looking for the out-of-context points to reinforce your own beliefs. Sorry for wasting your time with answers that you weren't really interested in, I'm out of this thread.

Sorry mate my computer is very slow so it's hard for me to answer to everyone.
The idea of this thread was for me to find-out how much an armature driver(s) cost and to see was I missing something from my analysis of what I am paying for in IEMs. You gave me the answers (THE END).
I am not saying that I want a flat frequency response curve but that is the intention of every headphone/earphone (that's all).
I am just considering to buy an IEM so need some advice, and I'm thinking about Westone as I like them for their experience, design and quality.
What is 'trolling'? (sorry I am new to the forum business)
 
REALLY THE THREAD IS FINISHED (I got my answer/s)

 

[kiteki]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iXpertMan /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
I am not saying that I want a flat frequency response curve but that is the intention of every headphone/earphone (that's all).
 

Then the Etymotic ER-4B is the IEM you should buy.
 

 

[jrkong]

Quote:

Hello!
I am looking to buy an IEM for Christmas but the prices seem very high for just a small piece of plastic and a bit of metal, so can anyone please explain to me why?
 
Basically an IEM consists of (from what I see):
1) Housing (plastic)
2) Armature Driver(s)
3) Crossover
4) Wiring & Cables
5) In-ear tips (foam, plastic etc.)
6) Packaging (box & accessories)
 
Now from the six parts which I've mentioned how can you possibly get something to cost 200 EURO? I imagine the housing costs like 1 euro to make, the cables and wires aren't that expensive too, the tips cost like 5 euros, the packaging another 5 euros, and the work like another 5 euros, therefore around 25-50 Euros for the IEM. I agree that some engineering went into making it, but so did into a computer and for 200 Euro I can buy myself a good PC.
***I can't find how much an armature driver costs and if anyone can please tell me.***
 
So from what I can see the maximum price should be 100 Euro, can someone prove me wrong why an IEM like Westone 2 costs twice that (even with the two drivers)?

 

Not all IEM's are armature drivers, its simply price vs performance. If something performs well compared to similar products there are going to be people willing to pay more for it. So why not profit more?

 

[Blue Boat]

The intention of every (any?) product is to sell. 
 
What appeals to people? There's no single answer to that. That's why some companies have different lines/versions of headphones and/or earphones to cater to different people. If you're saying that you want an iem with a flat-ish frequency response, then look at Etymotic. The HF5 is a really flat, analytical sounding IEM, for about $100. That's serious bang for buck right there. The ER4-variants are the more expensive versions of the HF5.

 

[kiteki]

 
The Etymotic HF5 is made in China, he wrote earlier he doesn't believe in anything made in China because it's too expensive.
 
 
The ER-4B is designed, manufactured and measured in the U.S., and it's basically the only IEM I can think of that follows his unwavering philosophy of how he thinks all headphones and IEM's should sound (he made a thread asking head-fi why we don't equalize everything).
 
 
"ER•4B earphones are for the binaural recording enthusiast. The ER•4B is an ideal earphone for use with material that has not been equalized for loudspeaker playback. It was developed from the ER-1 earphone that is referenced to a flat diffuse field and used primarily for speech reception research, where the goal is to produce the same frequency response at the eardrum as would be produced in the live situation."
 
 
Ironically, it's the least popular IEM that Etymotic has released.

 

[goodvibes]

 
Quote:

Have you seen the film 'The Pirates of The Silicon Valley'?
Well in that film we see how Apple Inc. came to be and how Microsoft and Windows also emerged silently. Basically Bill Gates stole the idea of a PC from Steve Jobs, made it cheaper and uglier and called it Windows. While Steve continued with the Mac and it's elegance.
 

So then Gates had to bail out Apple. Doesn't speak to the products.
 
People like to toss out numbers about what % better IEMs are or lossless over mp3 is. It doesn't work that way when you're dealing with an art form.  It's not quantifiable. Sometimes that 5 or 10% is exactly the difference needed for goose bumps or the difference that lets you understand technique and intention, a hammer hit from the sustain of a piano or the subtlety of amplitude in key hits. If it's what keeps you connected vs not than that difference is at least twice as important to you. If people don't get it then don't bother but those that listen to natural music in acoustic venues find these subtleties very important for being transported in and understanding the message or interpretation of a piece of music.
 

 

[TheGomdoRi]

Expensive IEMs are expensive due to demand. All those factors previously stated wages, R&D, logistics, what not is just a byproduct of demand for good quality IEMs.
If all the current consumers (enthusiasts/musicians/etc) suddenly stopped purchasing $500+ IEMs there would be no market for them and they'd be gone.

 

[kiteki]

That's correct, with no demand there is no supply.
 
Very few of us can afford or are interested in the UE18Pro, but we should be thankful there is a demand for it!

 

[jazzfish]

Just as a side note, I have friends who in their travels to China acquire the Beats Pro for about $100 or so or any other beats variant. Now if it were true that these are made in the same factory and sound very similar to the real deal then wouldn't that explain a bit about how much mark up there is.        I say this as one who buys and uses genuine IEMs with pride.