[Blue Boat]

 
OP, are you 12? Or are you trolling?

because I fail to see the point of this thread.
 
ITT, OP said that IEMs cost too much.
ITT, OP asks why.
ITT, OP gets lots of answers as to why.
ITT, OP implied that it's not easy to hear the difference between high-end IEMs and apple earbuds if you're not an audiophile.
ITT, OP talks about how MAC is better than PC because it beats the crap out of most PCs (aesthetics-wise).
 
OP is a pha....
 
 
 
 
 
 
gg-t

 

[rangerid]

Man this thread reminds me of that one earlier bashing Ety's Customer support. Useless, pointless, non-conducive and just end up turning into an argument.  

 

[some1]

Quote:

 

Mac OS is based on UNIX which is nearly the same for Linux. Apple doesn't let you to install its Mac OS on other PCs simply because it obliges you to get their own computer to use it, but also because they hate Windows and everything that it connects to.
Mac is special because of how easy and beautiful Mac OS is, but also Apple computers just look amazing and are wonderfully designed, unlike most PCs.
You can obviously install Mac OS on any PC because they all have the same principal components, but 1) It's illegal and 2) It won't (as you said) be perfect. [Thus the solution is get a MAC] 

 

My laptop is made by HP, but i can surf the web, everything but boot without a bootcd.... so i disagree, they use the same pc hardware, just crippled software.  Obviously its a business model, but i am just pointing this out.
 
 

 

[Coq de Combat]

Quote:

 

Mac OS is based on UNIX which is nearly the same for Linux. Apple doesn't let you to install its Mac OS on other PCs simply because it obliges you to get their own computer to use it, but also because they hate Windows and everything that it connects to.
Mac is special because of how easy and beautiful Mac OS is, but also Apple computers just look amazing and are wonderfully designed, unlike most PCs.
You can obviously install Mac OS on any PC because they all have the same principal components, but 1) It's illegal and 2) It won't (as you said) be perfect. [Thus the solution is get a MAC] 

 

Lolwut?
 
 

 

[pyro_dragun]

Mac OS is based on UNIX which is nearly the same for Linux. Apple doesn't let you to install its Mac OS on other PCs simply because it obliges you to get their own computer to use it, but also because they hate Windows and everything that it connects to.
Mac is special because of how easy and beautiful Mac OS is, but also Apple computers just look amazing and are wonderfully designed, unlike most PCs.
You can obviously install Mac OS on any PC because they all have the same principal components, but 1) It's illegal and 2) It won't (as you said) be perfect. [Thus the solution is get a MAC] :wink_face:

You are basically making the same arguments for Mac that we are making for expensive IEMs. It costs money to engineer and design the earphones, this is where I would say 70% of the cost of earphones goes to, R&D. The other part is creating the machines that can create the IEMs. You are right, the materials cost almost nothing, but everything else adds a ton of overhead. To design the Macs to look nice, it also took R&D on Apple's part, no difference there.

The difference though is that expensive IEMs use higher grade drivers, there is more engineering and design behind the crossovers and how it will effect sound quality.

Also, installing OSX on a PC is a perfect example to "EQing" some cheap earphones. It can give you the same general sound signature as some other more expensive IEMs, but what it cannot do is add more detail to the limited drivers, it cannot mimic the physical properties of the drivers themselves (i.e. dynamic vs. BA sound), it cannot increase the soundstage, and it cannot make the cheap IEMs more resolving. EQing solves very little of the primary problems of cheap IEMs, which is cheap drivers that cannot resolve or keep up with music, or make it sound like it should.

For me, my first pair of headphones were the Sennheiser HD212 pros, because that is all I could afford at the time when I was in college. They made a world of difference in my music, and were much better then stock iBuds. Now, my main pair of phones are my CK10s, which were worth every penny of the $200 I spent on them. They are pretty much exactly the sound signature I was looking for, and just like you love your mac because it makes computing "nice," I love my CK10s because it makes listening to music "nice." I actually liked the CK10s so much I have 2 pairs of them right now in case I break one.

 

[lazuline]

Read through the thread, some nice responses... but the OP is trolling hard...

 

[jaqueh]

i feel like OP is >18 years old

 

[kiteki]

Quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiteki /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
1. As I have pointed out, most headphones and IEM's are designed in Europe, America or Japan, the drivers in balanced armature IEM's are made in Illinois, USA or somewhere in Denmark, most products are made in China in the end, but as I wrote two posts above a Nike shoe costs $1 to make in Vietnam and it sells for $200 in USA, right?
 
2. Sound quality has little to do with bitrate.
 
3. Sound quality has little to do with a flat FR.

 
1) -
2) Sound Quality has somewhat to do with bitrate and if you read the forum people agree that using a lossless format is better (obviously the recording counts too).
3) The whole idea of sound reproduction is to achieve the FLAT FREQUENCY CURVE, so not necessarily the sound quality, but how natural and even it sounds is affected.
 

 
 
Quote:

Quote:

And if nobody makes money, than nobody bothers. Grab some granola, head to the hills and make a drum out of a lemming pelt and tree trunk.
 
I noticed that your avatar has an Apple logo. They sure get a lot for making a whole bunch of the same thing over and over with the same bits you can buy for less than 1/2 the price elsewhere. Whats the parts cost of software? I'm OK with it but how could you possibly be?

Apple is completely overpriced and I agree (when you talk hardware), but take a look at an ordinary PC with Windows, now take a look (or better try-out) a Mac with Mac OS, now tell me difference and which one you find more pleasurable.
 
But when I see IEMs, the sound quality isn't improved by far more, everyone says it a bit, a bit more, a bit better (barely noticeable). Not a really big better, yet the price is a lot bigger. Therefore the value is too high for something to be a bit better.
 
Returning to the Apple case, a MAC is a lot better!
 

Quote:

What's wrong now?
All sound reproduction devices are created in order to reproduce natural sound-artificially, therefore having a flat frequency curve.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iXpertMan /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
What's wrong now?
All sound reproduction devices are created in order to reproduce natural sound-artificially, therefore having a flat frequency curve.
 
Quote:

It's all relative!
 
IEMs are the best bang for the buck as a medium of listening to music. 
 
With a good IEM you are getting 75-80% of the sound quality compared to a great home system for 0.001% of the price. 
 
That is bargain if there ever was one!!!

 
What about in a comparison to a Full-sized headphone? For 200 Euro I can buy a hell of a great headphone with astonishing bass, rather than some tiny squeaker.
 

Quote:

Read through the thread, some nice responses... but the OP is trolling hard...

 
Lol.
 
iXpertMan lossless is better and people like it for file integrity, to keep the music pure, of course sound quality isn't about compression codecs and we have 3TB drives now so MP3 will disappear eventually.
 
Lossless sounds a little bit (like 5%) better, depending on the system, so bitrate really has little to do with sound-quality, compared to your IEM/speaker, DAP, DAC/sound-card, and the recording quality which will change the sound much more than 5%, more like 50000%. 
________
 
The idea of sound reproduction isn't to achieve a flat frequency curve, why don't you look at the frequency graphs of some of the most expensive and highly ranked headphones and custom IEM's in the world?
 
Do you think if you equalize a Skullcandy Smokin' Bud until it has a dead-flat FR, it will suddenly sound like diamonds? and do you think if you equalize a $500 headphone so it's 10db+ and 10db- all over the place, it sounds like mud? It still sounds pretty good - equalizers can't 'fix' anything, no one uses them on high-end IEM's or speakers.
 
Here is a picture of the FR of the Ultimate Ears UE18Pro, an IEM that costs $1,350.00, of course they are using expensive hardware, expensive microphones and laser scanner technology.
 

 
______________
 
 
As for your "the sound isn't improved (barely noticable)" comment, well I think the sound difference between a $50 IEM and $200 IEM is probably about 600% and anyone can hear the difference straight away.
 
Since the price difference is only 400%, then I think the 600% sound difference is easily justified, don't you think?
 
and remember, 192kbps and FLAC is only 5% difference.
 
 

 

[Migou67]

I know why I'm willing to pay more for good equipment, it is a pure pleasure and quality at a price, no miracle. After that there are still brands that may abuse on value for money.

But that's why Head-fi is, to allow you to find the best equipment according to your tastes, a great community with a passion for music and audio.

 

[tienbasse]

Seems like the OP has absolutely no idea how products are designed and manufactured, and what's included in the final price.
I guess in his mind everyone works for free, blueprints are coming out of nowhere, plants are instantly built and run at no cost, procurement / shipment is free as well etc etc...
 
 
Go and find a job in any industry, watch and learn.
 
 

 

[iXpertMan]

What about an MP3 and a Vinyl?
 
If a flat frequency curve isn't everything, explain this ---> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXjCodzFI9Y
Yes I agree it's not everything but it's a large part nevertheless. Some say that bass is bad, this is just because not enough air is moved thus you don't feel it and so you think it's not enough.

 

[Tronz]

Quote:

 
As for your "the sound isn't improved (barely noticable)" comment, well I think the sound difference between a $50 IEM and $200 IEM is probably about 600% and anyone can hear the difference straight away.
 
Since the price difference is only 400%, then I think the 600% sound difference is easily justified, don't you think?
 
and remember, 192kbps and FLAC is only 5% difference.
 
 

Woah! Don't you think that's a bit exaggerated? 
 

 

[iXpertMan]

Quote:

Lolwut?
 
 

Have you seen the film 'The Pirates of The Silicon Valley'?
Well in that film we see how Apple Inc. came to be and how Microsoft and Windows also emerged silently. Basically Bill Gates stole the idea of a PC from Steve Jobs, made it cheaper and uglier and called it Windows. While Steve continued with the Mac and it's elegance.
 

 

[Coq de Combat]

Quote:

Have you seen the film 'The Pirates of The Silicon Valley'?
Well in that film we see how Apple Inc. came to be and how Microsoft and Windows also emerged silently. Basically Bill Gates stole the idea of a PC from Steve Jobs, made it cheaper and uglier and called it Windows. While Steve continued with the Mac and it's elegance.
 

You're talking about something completely irrelevant to the part I highlighted. You said: Apple doesn't let you to install its Mac OS on other PCs simply because it obliges you to get their own computer to use it, but also because they hate Windows and everything that it connects to.
 
So, if they hate windows so much, and everything it "connects to", they must hate their own computers, since you can have windows on Macs. Right? No.
Since they hate windows so much, windows wouldn't be able to install in a virtual machine on Mac OS X, right? No.
 
Here's the simple truth behind Mac OS X being developed to work on only Macs: It's a business model. Make a good OS, but make it work only on your hardware, and you can sell the OS and the hardware. Polish it so that it looks good, and make it simple enough for everyone to use, and you got yourself a winner. It has nothing to do with hate. It has to do with offering a different product than your competition, and making it stable enough to outshine them. In this regard, they have succeeded well enough to make it really big, and they have their iMachines to thank for their success (I'm going to be bold enough to say that Apple would be a fraction of what it is today, hadn't they gone with the iPods, iPads, iPhones and such).

 

[kiteki]

Quote:

2. What about an MP3 and a Vinyl?
 
1. If a flat frequency curve isn't everything, explain this ---> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXjCodzFI9Y
Yes I agree it's not everything but it's a large part nevertheless. Some say that bass is bad, this is just because not enough air is moved thus you don't feel it and so you think it's not enough.

 
1. What am I supposed to explain? It's a guy drawing on a whiteboard about how a crossover system works. The Westone 3 will have more sub-bass and more high-highs, but that's not the only reason you use multi-driver setups.
 
Custom IEM's with 6 drivers and expensive headphones usually don't have a flat frequency response, sometimes they do, but just look at the FR of the Tesla T1 or Sony XB1000, etc.
 
Music is an art and so is sound reproduction, the way you are thinking, we should all be using Etymotic ER-4 and near-field studio monitors, and everything else is pointless to you.
 
 
2. What about vinyl?
 
 
Quote:

Woah! Don't you think that's a bit exaggerated? 
 

Yes, depends which IEM's though.