[MorrisL]

A fellow head-fier recently pointed out that "headphones from dark side of neutral are hard to come by" and it got me thinking... Less than a year into this hobby, and I've managed to hear many headphones ranging from $20 to $2000 in price, and the vast majority are indeed bright, often uncomfortably so. I recently bought an HD600 and even that isn't dark enough for some music, but its neutral and slightly rolled off in the treble signature is still pretty unique. Not too many other choices out there for such a signature. But you'd think that they would make many other headphones to this tune, since it's such a desirable signature for many.
 
I mean, really... Think about it. HD800, HD700, HE500, T1, DT880, DT990, DT770, DT660, K701, most Grado phones... You name it. All bright... All we have is the HD650 and LCD2. (I won't mention the little PX100 and a couple of other on-ear's) 
 
Now, what is really going on with all that? It almost feels like there's a conspiracy to make 'em all bright so they can sell us tube amps to alleviate the pain. Too many people raving about how a certain tube amp smooths the harsh highs on the you-name-it headphone. Well, we wouldn't need to smooth anything if they were designed smooth to begin with. 
 
Any thoughts on this?

 

[Mr Rick]

  A fellow head-fier recently pointed out that "headphones from dark side of neutral are hard to come by" and it got me thinking... Less than a year into this hobby, and I've managed to hear many headphones ranging from $20 to $2000 in price, and the vast majority are indeed bright, often uncomfortably so. I recently bought an HD600 and even that isn't dark enough for some music, but its neutral and slightly rolled off in the treble signature is still pretty unique. Not too many other choices out there for such a signature. But you'd think that they would make many other headphones to this tune, since it's such a desirable signature for many.
 
I mean, really... Think about it. HD800, HD700, HE500, T1, DT880, DT990, DT770, DT660, K701, most Grado phones... You name it. All bright... All we have is the HD650 and LCD2. (I won't mention the little PX100 and a couple of other on-ear's) 
 
Now, what is really going on with all that? It almost feels like there's a conspiracy to make 'em all bright so they can sell us tube amps to alleviate the pain. Too many people raving about how a certain tube amp smooths the harsh highs on the you-name-it headphone. Well, we wouldn't need to smooth anything if they were designed smooth to begin with. 
 
Any thoughts on this?

You could always get an equalizer. I just got one....................to brighten up my HD650s.

 

 

[whirlwind]

I love the HD650 for their darker side.....I think I will revisit them in the not so distant future.

 

[MorrisL]

  You could always get an equalizer. I just got one....................to brighten up my HD650s.

 

I know what you mean. Tastes may vary. But if you think about it, most headphones are indeed too bright. Even long-time studio legends like V6 and M50s are harsh and bright rather than smooth and warm. 

 

[Head Injury]

Emphasis in the treble leads to increased sense of detail, speed, and soundstage. Meanwhile, it's easier for bass frequencies to mask frequencies in the midrange, leading to a muffled or muddy sound. Audiophiles tend to use these terms to separate high end headphones from low end, so generally speaking it's easier to make a bright headphone sound impressive and "hi-fi".
 
I'm of the opinion, having experimented quite a bit with EQ, that a bass-to-treble balance like the LCD-2 or HD650 is closer to neutral than brighter headphones.

 

[Mr Rick]

  I know what you mean. Tastes may vary. But if you think about it, most headphones are indeed too bright. Even long-time studio legends like V6 and M50s are harsh and bright rather than smooth and warm. 

 
Not just taste. My sixty-five year old ears need a treble boost just to approach a neutral sound.  

 

[AnalogSavior]

I don't think it's that bad of a disparity. You have the HD650, all he Audezes, the Oppos, and Shure and Westone iems, just to name a few. They're out there, but I'll agree, definitely in less numbers, and usually at higher prices.

I think the trend towards bright comes from the perception that treble presence = detail, which most definitely not true. Adding treble is also a way to take a headphone that is too laid back, and make it "exciting." Or maybe it is the tube amp illuminati. Who knows.

Just my thoughts, there is plenty of gear to meet all tastes I think.

 

[kramer5150]

Spend some time plugging and playing around with Tylls innerfidelity site as well as his former site (Headroom build-a-graph)... there are plenty of bass-heavy cans out there to chose from.
 

 

 

[MorrisL]

I don't think it's that bad of a disparity. You have the HD650, all he Audezes, the Oppos, and Shure and Westone iems, just to name a few. They're out there, but I'll agree, definitely in less numbers, and usually at higher prices.

I think the trend towards bright comes from the perception that treble presence = detail, which most definitely not true. Adding treble is also a way to take a headphone that is too laid back, and make it "exciting." Or maybe it is the tube amp illuminati. Who knows.

Just my thoughts, there is plenty of gear to meet all tastes I think.

I was talking about full-size headphones. I have no experience with IEMs. And you mentioned Shure... Check out the sound signatures of their headphones. All of them bright.
 
Thank God for the 650 and the LCDs! Not much else out there. We could mention MA900. But it's been discontinued for a while now. 

 

[casper3127]

As an ex-owner of a pair of w40s, I wouldn't describe them as dark...

 

[MorrisL]

  Emphasis in the treble leads to increased sense of detail, speed, and soundstage. Meanwhile, it's easier for bass frequencies to mask frequencies in the midrange, leading to a muffled or muddy sound. Audiophiles tend to use these terms to separate high end headphones from low end, so generally speaking it's easier to make a bright headphone sound impressive and "hi-fi".
 
I'm of the opinion, having experimented quite a bit with EQ, that a bass-to-treble balance like the LCD-2 or HD650 is closer to neutral than brighter headphones.

This is a decent explanation.
 
Come to think of it, if given the choice to tell two headphones apart in terms of quality, I would probably name the brighter phone the better one, on first hearing and without factoring in long-term comfort and enjoyment. 
 
So, even though I prefer dark signatures, some fool in me will think, I am sure, that the brighter headphone is more detailed and of better quality.

 

[Mr Rick]

I don't own any so I must ask.  Are closed cans "darker"??

 

[Head Injury]

  I don't own any so I must ask.  Are closed cans "darker"??

Not by nature, they can be voiced bright or dark same as open ones. It's easier to get deep and loud bass out of closed headphones, though.

 

[MorrisL]

  Spend some time plugging and playing around with Tylls innerfidelity site as well as his former site (Headroom build-a-graph)... there are plenty of bass-heavy cans out there to chose from.
 

 

Oh, I have. That's where I see further evidence of their rarity. Out of the ones you sited, the TH900 was the real revelation for me. The Denon looks nice too. But k812 is really pushing it (not warm enough) and the XB700 is not a serious thing to consider.  

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  A fellow head-fier recently pointed out that "headphones from dark side of neutral are hard to come by" and it got me thinking... Less than a year into this hobby, and I've managed to hear many headphones ranging from $20 to $2000 in price, and the vast majority are indeed bright, often uncomfortably so. I recently bought an HD600 and even that isn't dark enough for some music, but its neutral and slightly rolled off in the treble signature is still pretty unique. Not too many other choices out there for such a signature. But you'd think that they would make many other headphones to this tune, since it's such a desirable signature for many.
 
I mean, really... Think about it. HD800, HD700, HE500, T1, DT880, DT990, DT770, DT660, K701, most Grado phones... You name it. All bright... All we have is the HD650 and LCD2. (I won't mention the little PX100 and a couple of other on-ear's) 
 
Now, what is really going on with all that? It almost feels like there's a conspiracy to make 'em all bright so they can sell us tube amps to alleviate the pain. Too many people raving about how a certain tube amp smooths the harsh highs on the you-name-it headphone. Well, we wouldn't need to smooth anything if they were designed smooth to begin with. 
 
Any thoughts on this?

 

A lot of factors contribute to that.

 

1. It's difficult to make a fullrange driver that has a very smooth response from 20hz to 20khz; many have peaks somewhere between 5khz to 10khz. You can check  the graphs of the "bright" headphones in Headphone.com or Innerfidelity, all of them have that peak in that region. Even teh HD600 and HD650 have a point in the same region where the response rises, just not as high as on the K70x. In speakers, large fullrange drivers tend to need a notch filter just to tame a peak in the treble.

 

2. Another contributing factor is how headphones are worn. The more direct they blow into the ear canal the higher the tendency they'll sound sharper. The HD800 is basically closer to neutral but it its driver mounts were the more conventional type I'd bet they'd be really sharp in the treble (I find them neutral actually, and my HD600 on worn pads can have treble spikes sharper than any HD800 I've tried, including one on visibly worn out pads). This is basically the problem with Grado's vintage, cost-reducing standard chassis/earpad design. You can try this with speakers if you have some - listen to them at their normal toe-in angle, then put them on your flanks at a direct path towards the side of your head. (notice how many cheap earphones are the same way.

 

3. There's also the problem of variable response of each human's hearing systems, even without hearing damage (I know a guy who has a severe midrange hearing loss, so instead of a hearing aid that makes everything louder he needs the $2,000 kind that EQs the sound). Look at how all nearly all headphones actually have that "V-shaped" response (as people call it), the difference really is how far to the left or right and how high the peaks will be. Regardless, even the headphones known for their mids usually have "recessed mids" (another term used in the forums) if you're looking at the graphs. Basically, there's a possibility that you're one of the people who are more sensitive to high frequencies than the average person. While I myself only need the treble to be smooth, the easiest way to make me serve up a knuckle sandwich (no guarantee it'll get served properly because I might be shaking and disoriented at some point) is to intentionally and slowly scratch a blackboard.

 

In any case, that's the thing - get a headphone with the smoothest response possible at least from 50hz to 10khz; don't rely on an amplifier's distortion characteristics or even primarily rely on EQ (except in cases where fit is very important, like IEMs).