[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by seacard I am interested in the implications of this thread. Technology has improved dramatically over the last few years. Today's $200 computer blows away a $20,000 one from the 80's. Today's $3000 TV destroys a $10,000 TV from just a few years back. iPods, XBOX 360, PSP, etc. etc. etc. However, in the audiophile world, there's this strange pull the other way. There's a strong preference for things old (vinyl, tubes, etc.). Same with headphones... some of these headphones that today are regarded as greatest of all time got very little attention when they were in production. Obviously there are two possibilities: 1) Audio technology is different from all others in the world and has actually gone backwards while the rest of the tech world was moving forward; or 2) Audio technology is no different from all others, and has moved forward, and just like IBM can sell a computer for $1000 that used to case $5000, Sennheiser or AKG or Sony can sell a much better headphone (or at least a "no worse" headphone) for much less money. Obviously, on Head-fi the former is the leading opinion. But is that the universal understanding, and if so, why is this the case?

Well, it's widely recognized that digital sources have improved quite a bit (and in fact probably so have analog).

The fact that tubes/analog are preferred by some doesn't say anything about technology improvements -- I'm sure today's tube amps are MUCH better than the tube amps of the 1950s, for example.

I think you're mixing up techology improvements with technology *shifts* -- for example, from analog to digital and from tubes to transistors. Such shifts aren't necessarily improvements, just differences... and it always takes time for the new technologies to catch up to state-of-the-art of the older one(s).

I don't know anyone who thinks that audio technology has gone backwards. The choices of consumers re: SQ vs. convenience may have gone backwards, but the technology itself is more capable of high fidelity sound than ever. I don't think anyone will dispute that, if you clearly separate the two concepts. Even hardcore turntable fans will acknowledge that digital playback (high end redbook or SACD/DVD-A) has improved.

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tachikoma Well, even world records are broken every 2-3 years. How long has it been since the orpheus was introduced?

More importantly and to the point, how long since the Qualia was introduced?

 

[Vashin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by seacard I am interested in the implications of this thread. Technology has improved dramatically over the last few years. Today's $200 computer blows away a $20,000 one from the 80's. Today's $3000 TV destroys a $10,000 TV from just a few years back. iPods, XBOX 360, PSP, etc. etc. etc. However, in the audiophile world, there's this strange pull the other way. There's a strong preference for things old (vinyl, tubes, etc.). Same with headphones... some of these headphones that today are regarded as greatest of all time got very little attention when they were in production. Obviously there are two possibilities: 1) Audio technology is different from all others in the world and has actually gone backwards while the rest of the tech world was moving forward; or 2) Audio technology is no different from all others, and has moved forward, and just like IBM can sell a computer for $1000 that used to cost $5000, Sennheiser or AKG or Sony can sell a much better headphone (or at least a "no worse" headphone) for much less money. Obviously, on Head-fi the former is the leading opinion. But is that the universal understanding, and if so, why is this the case?

Just like guitars!

 

[seacard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch I think you're mixing up techology improvements with technology *shifts*.

That's a good point... I wasn't necessarily mixing them up, but you're right that there are two points in there. One is regarding resistance to shifts to new technologies. Very few people (although some may still be around) would say that CRT tube TVs are better than modern plasmas or LCDs, or that an abacus is just better than a calculator. But I guess that's not the point of this thread.

Once we go within a technology, almost universally drastic improvements are made almost daily. I mean, Sony PS3 will cost nearly $900 to make at first, then dropping to $300 in a few months. Or my first laptop, which cost $5000 when I bought it in 1996, and was obsolete by 1997. There aren't many other areas where a product doesn't improve over time. I don't really understand why a headphone which cost $8000 back in the day can't be sold for under 1K today. With mass production and advances in the field, there's no reason for it. You would never expect to hear somebody say "Man, they just don't make computers like they used to" or "Why are all the best TVs discontinued" or "The XBOX 360 doesn't hold a candle to the Atari" etc. Products get cheaper and better. Yet here, the most expensive and the discontinued (preferrably both) headphones are regarded as being much better than current options.

 

[seacard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vashin Just like guitars!

I don't know if this is a fair comparison. There isn't much "technology" in guitars. I am not saying everything gets better. Some things have been perfected over decades or centuries, so I wouldn't ask why wood tables aren't getting any better, and if somebody said that wood tables from the 18th century were stronger than today, I wouldn't be shocked.

 

[Goober]

I can agree with this thread topic. I know I'd love to get my hands on a pair of CD1700s. I haven't heard of a headphone since that sounds like it would suit me as well. Unfortunately, every time I've seen one for sale I've either a) not had the money or b) it's been modded.

 

[jagorev]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vashin Just like guitars!

And violins too!

 

[Mercuttio]

Personally, I'm really just curious about the changes at Audio Technica in the past few years. I'm finding myself more and more wanting to get an older pair of those... but I just REALLY didn't like the newer ones that much!

 

[Quado]

Aaahhh!! You all are making good points, but let's face it....the creator of this thread has headphones that are TOP of the line...so maybe he is not satisfied with something else (in a way)? I honestly think that in order for most of us to get the most out of headphones...we have to get sources costing $20,000 or something (lol, not seriously though...but you get the picture). I've been on this board for awhile (I guess), and I believe that the majority of people on this forum concentrate on headphones and variety, instead of just one huge end-all-be-all setup. Me myself, 'am trying to get just ONE setup...I only need ONE decent headset (edit: oops, forget about in-ears or whatever, lol.... I don't know, man), ONE decent source (for each format I need it), ONE decent amp, and if I have the money, ONE decent dac...cables...etc (yeah, I already know about the variety thing, but I'm not into that...lol, I could spend that money on something else...).

I know for sure that there IS a scene going on these days...and that's with in-ear headphones (not exactly the same thing, but....this is where headphone technology always improved in the future...and never had the best in the past, I think). Maybe one day, there'll be an in-ear Orpheus....if you know what I mean. Who knows, I'm pretty sure that companies have made up tons of ideas to improve their products, or make them really different.......they probably thought of the ideas in my psychotic huge in-ear thread for geeks some time ago, and probably couldn't get something going, or knew it wasn't efficient/etc....but if it'd actually take things somewhere, I'm sure SOMEONE will have to do something WILD, and just change the headphone world forever (sort of like with in-ears....with the technology developing and never having a "best" old product).

If this post has you confused, then I understand what you mean, because it sure did confuse me..... Anyways, I guess the idea here is start buying better sources? Whatever.......we need a MAD scientist to just make something magical, huh?

 

[Vashin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by seacard I don't know if this is a fair comparison. There isn't much "technology" in guitars. I am not saying everything gets better. Some things have been perfected over decades or centuries, so I wouldn't ask why wood tables aren't getting any better, and if somebody said that wood tables from the 18th century were stronger than today, I wouldn't be shocked.

Fine, just like electric guitar amps!