[reginalb]

   
The thing is that you'll probably notice a sound quality improvement with most SACDs.  Where some audiophiles sometimes get it wrong is that they ascribe the better sound to hi res or DSD technology when it is just the music has been mastered better for a more discerning audience.  The label could easily release the same quality mastering on CDs but they usually don't - even the CD layer on most SACDs are mastered differently (usually brickwalled or heavily compressed).  I have many MFSL and original release CDs which sound better than the SACD version which, if  one suscribed to the superior technology theory, wouldn't think was possible.

 
This is actually why I've bought some digital downloads from Acoustic Sounds. I like that they disclose who did the master, and I've long suspected that you'll find better masters in the releases aimed at not being listened to on cheap earbuds while walking down the street with tons of ambient noise. They have to raise the quiet sections of a track for that type of situation, or you wouldn't be able to hear those quite sections, without turning up the volume so much that you'd rupture your eardrums when a loud section kicks in (my digital copy of of Ella and Louis has a few moments of pop the in-ears out when the horns kick in because holy crap that hurt)
 
Wouldn't it be nice if downloads came with 2 masters? Like a high and low ambient noise master? Or if they all just had the low ambient noise master, and you could use the DSP options in something like the bulk transcoder in dbpoweramp to create that? A pipe dream I'm sure, but still. 

 

[sonitus mirus]

   
This is actually why I've bought some digital downloads from Acoustic Sounds. I like that they disclose who did the master, and I've long suspected that you'll find better masters in the releases aimed at not being listened to on cheap earbuds while walking down the street with tons of ambient noise. They have to raise the quiet sections of a track for that type of situation, or you wouldn't be able to hear those quite sections, without turning up the volume so much that you'd rupture your eardrums when a loud section kicks in (my digital copy of of Ella and Louis has a few moments of pop the in-ears out when the horns kick in because holy crap that hurt)
 
Wouldn't it be nice if downloads came with 2 masters? Like a high and low ambient noise master? Or if they all just had the low ambient noise master, and you could use the DSP options in something like the bulk transcoder in dbpoweramp to create that? A pipe dream I'm sure, but still. 

 
I think isolation and noise cancelling are better options over having 2 distinct masters, though not practical for everyone.  It certainly would be nice to have some DSP parameters that could be read and implemented by audio playback software.  It would probably require too much cooperation and money to make a reality.  Maybe the "loudness" option that typically EQs the bass and treble about +6dB is all that is needed for most situations with this type of music?

 

[reginalb]

 
I think isolation and noise cancelling are better options over having 2 distinct masters, though not practical for everyone.  It certainly would be nice to have some DSP parameters that could be read and implemented by audio playback software.  It would probably require too much cooperation and money to make a reality.  Maybe the "loudness" option that typically EQs the bass and treble about +6dB is all that is needed for most situations with this type of music?

 
You're probably right, but most people are going to use the enclosed ear buds when they listen to music. And honestly, I can't stand running outside with too much isolation, but do want to at least kind of hear the music. You're probably right that a simple option on a DAP would do the trick better than my proposition. 

 

[KeithEmo]

   
I think isolation and noise cancelling are better options over having 2 distinct masters, though not practical for everyone.  It certainly would be nice to have some DSP parameters that could be read and implemented by audio playback software.  It would probably require too much cooperation and money to make a reality.  Maybe the "loudness" option that typically EQs the bass and treble about +6dB is all that is needed for most situations with this type of music?

 
There actually are some options like that in the audio formats used on most DVDs and Blu-Ray discs. Dolby Volume is intended to make it so you can still hear dialog, even when you're listening in the middle of the night, with everything turned down quiet. The option itself is offered on most home theater pre/pros and AVRs, and, more to the point here, the producer of the disc gets to configure how much compression is applied when the user turns it on.

 

[hogger129]

24-bits and high sample rates are necessary for mastering, not listening.  For listening, CD quality is all you need.  They just need to master CDs and digital downloads the right way.  

 

[coli]

I got a high end active monitor setup now, and it is very rare to find a hi-res recording that actually sound better than CD quality. It really depends on how they record/mix/produced the music. K2HD (upsampled 96k/24bit) for example always sounds worse than CD. 
 
The recording has to be recorded in hi-res, and the subsequent steps must not have any resampling done to it in order to produce something that sounds better than CD. And this is apparently really rare today....
 
For normal setups though, you won't be able to hear the difference, so it does not matter. CD is the safe choice.

 

[MacacoDoSom]

  I got a high end active monitor setup now, and it is very rare to find a hi-res recording that actually sound better than CD quality. It really depends on how they record/mix/produced the music. K2HD (upsampled 96k/24bit) for example always sounds worse than CD. 
 
The recording has to be recorded in hi-res, and the subsequent steps must not have any resampling done to it in order to produce something that sounds better than CD. And this is apparently really rare today....
 
For normal setups though, you won't be able to hear the difference, so it does not matter. CD is the safe choice.

I think you're maybe right, but... can you define 'a high end active monitor setup' ?

 

[coli]

 
I think you're maybe right, but... can you define 'a high end active monitor setup' ?

Focal SM9 is unbelievable. Consumer setups are just... sad after this.

 

[MacacoDoSom]

 

   
.I think you're maybe right, but... can you define 'a high end active monitor setup' ?

Focal SM9 is unbelievable. Consumer setups are just... sad after this.

It's not unbelievable, what I find unbelievable it's the 'audiophile' people that doesn't know about the so called pro market.
Its a very good professional product...with a price not so high considering...,  there are several other good products/alternatives (much cheaper ones) like that in the market, much cheaper than the half equivalent consumer 'audiophile' products. Maybe that's why they are called consumer....products...
If you have a pair of SM9's and a small pro audio-interface +/- $300 (once again much cheaper than the consumer DACs with half the features) you will be much better served than a double/triple priced HI-FI ultra super dupper audiophile system you can imagine. (unless you use some tunning dots and atomic cables).
But let me say it, they are a bit overkill (if there is such thing) for the average home/room. 
Congratulations... and... happy birthday...

 

[coli]

 
It's not unbelievable, what I find unbelievable it's the 'audiophile' people that doesn't know about the so called pro market.
Its a very good professional product...with a price not so high considering...,  there are several other good products/alternatives (much cheaper ones) like that in the market, much cheaper than the half equivalent consumer 'audiophile' products. Maybe that's why they are called consumer....products...
If you have a pair of SM9's and a small pro audio-interface +/- $300 (once again much cheaper than the consumer DACs with half the features) you will be much better served than a double/triple priced HI-FI ultra super dupper audiophile system you can imagine. (unless you use some tunning dots and atomic cables).
But let me say it, they are a bit overkill (if there is such thing) for the average home/room. 
Congratulations... and... happy birthday...

It's accurate. Accuracy has both advantage and disadvantage. It's unbelievable how much the Klipsch driver rings after the comparison, but I like the Klipsch sound too

 

[sonitus mirus]

I believe active monitors offer the best price-performance ratio even at the entry level, provided that the room and listening position are appropriate to take advantage of them.

 

[old tech]

  I believe active monitors offer the best price-performance ratio even at the entry level, provided that the room and listening position are appropriate to take advantage of them.

Could you elaborate on the room and listening position angle?  I have recently set up a pair of AVI's ADM9RS actives with an SVS sub in my living room.  The clarity of the sound is spectacular, particular the mids and mid-highs but it seems to be lacking in the mid-bass area.  The SVS sub does a great job with the lower bass, but there seems to be a hole around the 100 to 300hz range which is frustrating as the clean mids and highs really higlight this defficiency. I have tried different locations for the sub which improves the sound but the hole is still there, and played around with the crossover - but with anything over a 100hz you can then identify the sub.  Any suggestions?

 

[MacacoDoSom]

 

  I believe active monitors offer the best price-performance ratio even at the entry level, provided that the room and listening position are appropriate to take advantage of them.

Could you elaborate on the room and listening position angle?  I have recently set up a pair of AVI's ADM9RS actives with an SVS sub in my living room.  The clarity of the sound is spectacular, particular the mids and mid-highs but it seems to be lacking in the mid-bass area.  The SVS sub does a great job with the lower bass, but there seems to be a hole around the 100 to 300hz range which is frustrating as the clean mids and highs really higlight this defficiency. I have tried different locations for the sub which improves the sound but the hole is still there, and played around with the crossover - but with anything over a 100hz you can then identify the sub.  Any suggestions?

First you should check if the problem comes from the speakers, try to listen to them very close something like 0.8 m to 1 m from your head to each speaker with 0.8 m to 1 m apart from each other (equilateral triangle) with no sub and medium/low volume.
You should not have that problem, so the problem is with the room. If you still have that hole the problem is with the speakers.....
If that's not the case you'll have to change your living room... and that can also be a problem... 

 

[old tech]

 
First you should check if the problem comes from the speakers, try to listen to them very close something like 0.8 m to 1 m from your head to each speaker with 0.8 m to 1 m apart from each other (equilateral triangle) with no sub and medium/low volume.
You should not have that problem, so the problem is with the room. If you still have that hole the problem is with the speakers.....
If that's not the case you'll have to change your living room... and that can also be a problem...

Thanks for the reply.  I'm fairly sure the problem is with the room acoustics as the sound did not have this issue when set up in my listening room. Unfortunately, even though I spend most of my home time in the living room these days, I can't do too much with it due to the wife factor, and the odd shape of the room limits my options for speaker placement.  I suppose I was just wondering if there are any (relatively) simple acoustic treatment ideas which can target this type of deficit as I'd rather not have to go down the road of a DSP solution.  Probably related to having a lack of mid-bass is that if I play music moderately loud the upper mids, though clear, are a bit overpowering and piercing which again was not an issue in the listening room.  I also have the TV/video hooked up to these speakers and the funny thing is that the lack of mid-bass and piercing upper mids are not very apparent when watching a movie or listening to a music video.

 

[coli]

  I believe active monitors offer the best price-performance ratio even at the entry level, provided that the room and listening position are appropriate to take advantage of them.

At the entry level, cheap receiver + cheap speaker can be pretty good too. Especially receivers with dynamicEQ. Anything above entry level, and active monitors can not be beaten at all. Makes audiophile company look like scams...