[murphythecat]

   
Which reminds me...if the HD 800 is tweaked, then it would only be fair to also tweak the 009, at least with EQ, ya know?

depends, some headphone doest really need eq. hd650 with sonarworks wont make them sound so drastically different and wont bring details that the drivers arent able to deliver. 
Id say some headphones benefit from eq more then others

 

[Music Alchemist]

  depends, some headphone doest really need eq. hd650 with sonarworks wont make them sound so drastically different and wont bring details that the drivers arent able to deliver. 
Id say some headphones benefit from eq more then others

 
What I'm saying is that if you equalize an HD 800 and then say you think it's better than the 009, that's unfair unless you also equalize the 009. But regardless of the headphone, my point stands, because it's about seeing what all the headphones are capable of after equalization instead of just one. If one ends up improving while the other doesn't, then you know.

 

[MikePio]

  its really a matter of taste here. I find that without eq, hd800 bass is not present enough for the music I listen and hd650 bass is maybe not as accurate but more groovy. with eq, I find the hd800 bass simply better. same with highs, hd650 less accurate but sweeter and more musical vs hd800 stock. with eq, hd800 better. mids of hd800 is simply always better though eq or not.
 
thing is it really matters the music you listen to. with classical, theres so very little instruments exciting the 6khz and so very little instruments that has a lot of under100hz content that all the shortcomings from hd800 are not shown. with modern music with tons of treble over 4 khz and tons of bass under 100hz, the hd800 may not be perfect. EQ solve all the problems. with electronica/idm/ambient and pop and jazz, eq for me. classical and modern classical, eq not needed

 
Yes I agree it does come down to a matter of taste. I primarily listen to ambient/electronica/classical with the HD800. The rest of my audio chain has always been optimized and geared around "bright" or treble hot headphones (K701, W5000) over the years, so I guess this might have an influence on how I don't really perceive the hot treble to be an issue on most of the genres I mentioned. On albums such as Burial - Untrue and Robert Miles - Dreamland the sound can almost be described as electric and hyper detailed with a vast amount of air or space between all the different sounds, it is really something special. The only time I have been forced to use EQ was on rap albums (but the production quality is poor compared to other genres). Coming back to the HD650's, they definitely are a very "cozy" headphone, you can just relax and not get bombarded with sensory overload

. Now I just wish I could give the Stax SR 009 a listen, something tells me I would really enjoy them! 

 

[Barra]

 

  Here is where I think there is confusion in this comparative HD800 vs. 009 discussion:
 
Stock Version: IMO, the stock HD800 and the 009 have similar signatures making them easy to compare. In this case, the 009 wins without any doubts being an exotic compared to the top tier HD800. Two different tiers of performance. 
 
Triple Tweaked Version: What is harder to compare is that the modded, SonarWorks, triple tweaked HD800 changes in signature to be more like an Abyss - then performing in the exotic range. Therefore, the comparison then becomes which signature works better for your preferences - or do you prefer the Abyss or the 009 signature when listening to YOUR music.
 
Bottom line: The stock HD800 and triple tweaked HD800 are basically two different HPs with completely different signatures.
 
Just my 2 cents.

 
Which reminds me...if the HD 800 is tweaked, then it would only be fair to also tweak the 009, at least with EQ, ya know?

And highly encouraged. However, I haven't heard much about 009 tweaking while here in Seattle, HD800 tweaking has become very common and almost expected at meets.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  And highly encouraged. However, I haven't heard much about 009 tweaking while here in Seattle, HD800 tweaking has become very common and almost expected at meets.

 
As you know, EQ is the most common tweak.
 

Spoiler: EQ tutorials

http://www.head-fi.org/t/796791/the-most-reliable-easiest-way-to-eq-headphones-properly-to-achieve-the-most-ideal-sound-for-non-professionals
http://www.head-fi.org/t/794467/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-2016-update
http://www.head-fi.org/t/615417/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-advanced-tutorial-in-progress
http://www.head-fi.org/t/587703/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-a-tutorial-part-2
http://www.head-fi.org/t/413900/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-a-tutorial

 
Then, of course, there are physical modifications.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/744839/damping-mechanical-resonance-distortion-of-stax-and-other-phones-with-sorbothane
http://www.head-fi.org/t/754839/stax-sr-009-and-sr-007-mk1-earpad-diy-mods

 

[Barra]

 

  And highly encouraged. However, I haven't heard much about 009 tweaking while here in Seattle, HD800 tweaking has become very common and almost expected at meets.

 
As you know, EQ is the most common tweak.
 

Spoiler: EQ tutorials

http://www.head-fi.org/t/796791/the-most-reliable-easiest-way-to-eq-headphones-properly-to-achieve-the-most-ideal-sound-for-non-professionals
http://www.head-fi.org/t/794467/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-2016-update
http://www.head-fi.org/t/615417/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-advanced-tutorial-in-progress
http://www.head-fi.org/t/587703/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-a-tutorial-part-2
http://www.head-fi.org/t/413900/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-a-tutorial

 
Then, of course, there are physical modifications.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/744839/damping-mechanical-resonance-distortion-of-stax-and-other-phones-with-sorbothane
http://www.head-fi.org/t/754839/stax-sr-009-and-sr-007-mk1-earpad-diy-mods

Looks like I have some reading to do.
 
Are the 009 tweaking results as huge as with the HD800? As mentioned before, we designed/tuned headphones like the darker HD650 sounds better without SonarWorks IMO so tweaking/EQing is not always an obvious positive like with the brighter HD800/700. The 009 already sound fantastically dialed in based on what I have heard. They just don't sound as full bodied as I like with the Abyss.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Looks like I have some reading to do.
 
Are the 009 tweaking results as huge as with the HD800? As mentioned before, we designed/tuned headphones like the darker HD650 sounds better without SonarWorks IMO so tweaking/EQing is not always an obvious positive like with the brighter HD800/700. The 009 already sound fantastically dialed in based on what I have heard. They just don't sound as full bodied as I like with the Abyss.

 
Dunno.
 
EQ can work wonders for so many headphones, including brighter and more neutral ones. Just one example with Sonarworks and my own experience: it transformed the Sony MDR-7506 from unbearably harsh and tinny to something that is deep and easy to listen to.

 

[MichaelJames99]

I will be getting the Smyth Realizer A16 this summer.  And I really want to upgrade my headphones and probably my amp too.  I want the WOW factor.
I am  currently using AKG 712 and Muscial Fidelity XCAN v2 amp.
**I am using these for MOVIES ONLY**
 
What would you folks recommend?  Budget is up to $5k

 

[Dillan]

For me it's:

1. 009
2. 800S
3. 800

I think the S version improved the 800 immensely and made it one of the most impressive and enjoyable headphones for me.. but as far as overall sound quality (clarity, transparency, accuracy and almost every other catagory) the 009 very very slightly notches ahead overall but having to use an electrostatic amp and not being able to go portable with the 009 had always prevented me from getting it. I love the versatility of upgrading the 800S cables and using it with a good portable dap.

 

[MichaelJames99]

Which headphones do you use for movies?  I am thinking the 800 S  may be what I want but I keep getting caught up in the LFE/Subwoofer bass in movies and can it handle it?

 

[MacedonianHero]

For me it's:

1. 009
2. 800S
3. 800

I think the S version improved the 800 immensely and made it one of the most impressive and enjoyable headphones for me.. but as far as overall sound quality (clarity, transparency, accuracy and almost every other catagory) the 009 very very slightly notches ahead overall but having to use an electrostatic amp and not being able to go portable with the 009 had always prevented me from getting it. I love the versatility of upgrading the 800S cables and using it with a good portable dap.

That's how I would rank these three headphones as well. 

 

[edstrelow]

I have been astonished over the years at the extent to which Headfiers keep missing the fact that both the HD800 and HD  800 S use a unique system for damping mechanical energy.. I believe that this contributes to much of the advantages of these phones.  This is taken from the current Amazon listing:
 
"The metal headband is 'sandwiched' between several layers of resonance dampening polymers to eliminate unwanted vibrations from being transmitted to the headphone mountings and ear cups."
 
This probably means little or nothing to most of us especially why would you place damping in the headband other than to increase comfort and it meant nothing to me until I got onto the problem of damping vibrations in Stax phones some years back.  
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/744839/damping-mechanical-energy-distortion-of-stax-and-other-phones-with-sorbothane-and-other-materials
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/671314/stax-sr007-resonance-problems
 
Basically the story is that there is a lot of mechanical energy floating around in the eracups of headphones, probably  the result of Newton's Third law of Motion:
 
"When one body exerts a force on a second body, the second body simultaneously exerts a force equal in magnitude and opposite in direction on the first body."
 
As applied to headphones, what this implies is that there is the same amount of energy going from the driver capsule into the earcups as is going out making sound into the air. If this Newtonian energy dies quickly, no problem for  a listener. But if it doesn't, and mostly it doesn't, then the sound is messed up because essentially the earcups are buzzing with this energy.   
 
If you haven't heard this explanation before that wouldn't surprise me, but I have run it by a few mechanical engineers who have agreed with it. 
 
Soem years back, I noticed that the sound of  my Stax SR007A changed slightly, just by touching the headband.  I though that was odd and started playing with clamps and sorbothane which is also a polymer..
 
Sennheiser apparently figured this out earlier. They also realized, as I discovered with the SR007A, that these unwanted vibrations can travel through the headband.  After a couple of years playing with this, I also know that you can do significant damping merely by applying  polymer materials such as Sorbothane to the headband although I maintain you really want to apply it in the earcups if possible first. 
 
I am a Stax guy but heard the original HD800 at a Canjam in Los Angeles some years ago and also my SR007A with the BHSE amp (the 009 was not out at that time.) I  was very impressed by them both and wasn't sure that there was all that much better sound coming from the Stax set-up, with my phones.  (This was well before I got into damping the SR007A.)
 
Some of the comments I have read from fans of the HD800 are exactly what I get from my sorbothane studies, clearer renditioning of studio ambience, improved subtle and not-so-subtle details, and a wider soundstage. Why the latter? The headband damping is stopping the crosstalk between the earcups which if not stopped acts as a sort of blending of the two channels.  Complete blend of course gives you no stereo at all, rather monaural sound.
 
So this is yet another difficult idea for headphone fans to grasp,  that the headband itself messes up sound by transmitting crosstalk.    Keith Howard  did the measurements of mechanical cross-talk between earcups through headbands which I noted previously.    See p26 et seq of  http://www.politicalavenue.com/108642/US-MAGAZINES/Hi-Fi%20News%20-%20July%202016.pdf  in HiFi News and Record Review.
 
I am aware now of at least three other companies working in the same direction, Grado, B&W and Audioquest.  Grado  uses a "proprietary polycarbonate in its e-series phones, which it contends improves transients (I agree, same as with sorbothane).  The Audioquest Nitghthawk uses Liquidwood earcups with elastomer coating applied on innerside,- Earcups and headband arc mechanically separated by four elastomer stringsthe drivers have urethane rubber surrounds that absorbs vibrations  and biocellulose which is a is self damping diaphragm material (thanks Henery)  and the isolates the driver from the earcup by  elastic springs.  B&W talks about decoupling the headband on its P9 phones which "stops unwanted vibration transmitting between each earcup  and the headband. "
 
I have not heard the Grado, B&W and Audioquest phoens so I have no opinion as to how effective they are but the HD800 sound good to me and so do my various sorbothane damped Staxen.
 
I would assume that Sennheiser is also using damping in their ultra expensive HE-1.  The headband looks like it could contain damping material but I haven't seen any direct evidence.  Stax on the other hand appears to be unaware of the issue, but you never know what will turn up. 

 

[Dillan]

That seemed like a pretty lengthy and detailed post just to explain that Sennheisers headband has anti vibration (sound dampening) properties haha

Not sure if that's common knowledge and which companies beside Sennheiser are doing this to their flagships but years ago before I bought my 800 I did lots of research and almost every interview from Sennheiser staff would highlight that feature when talking about the design.

Weird resonances are definitely common even in high end cans. Part of the upgrade that hifiman did to the version 2 of their he1000 is decrease the distance between the driver and the cup due to the extra space causing unwanted resonance.

 

[andre dufour]

FWIW, I owned the HD800 for about 5 years and now own the HD800S and love both...I do prefer the HD800S by a reasonable margin. That said, my SR-009s (had for about 4 years) are head above shoulders better to my ears. As revealing and transparent as my HD800S's are, the SR-009s have me still hearing things on recordings that the Sennheisers would completely gloss over. The HD800S are my favourite dynamic moving coil headphones bar none (obviously excluding orthos like the LCD-4 or HE1000).

I agree 100%. The STAX SR-009 are a different level of headphone. Min. $$ setup for STAX SR009 is 12K. 800's don't need as much. 009s driven with a great amp are INCREDIBLE. I have both and still use both.

 

[yates7592]

12K - in which currency? Sorry, but if you mean US dollars or Euros you are very wide of the mark. Unless you're implying a T2 is the only amp worthy of 009?