Who else suffers from very little usable range on the volume knob?

[Kevin.T]

Hey guys, I have to get this off my chest. I'm hoping people can chime in with their experiences as well, because I can't be the only one!

Context: My main headphones are the LCD-2; my source is a CD player that outputs a fixed 2 Vrms.

With my Burson Soloist, the LCD-2 are driven pretty loud around 9 o'clock on the volume knob. Because the Burson uses a stepped attenuator, it's very hard to find the desired volume output with louder recordings.

I also have a Headfive lying around, which I tried recently. Same thing: LCD-2 are driven to loud volumes under 9 o'clock, giving me very little range to play with on the volume knob.

Now, I know that the Soloist has 3 gain settings: 2x, 6x and 8x 7.7dB, 13.7dB and 18.2dB output (from the User manual; got my numbers wrong at first). I don't know what the gain is on the Headfive. I figured that getting an O2 with a 1x gain might give me more usable range on the volume knob. I was actually pretty excited about this.

Nope! The LCD-2 are driven to painfully loud volumes at merely 8:30 on the volume knob, even on 1x gain!

So basically, the volume control is impractical on all my amps. With the stepped attenuator, I can't fine tune the volume to my liking (it's usually hidden between 2 steps). With an ALPS pot, I have to use surgical precision when adjusting volume and I'm always sitting close to the channel imbalance region.

Is it like this for everybody? Is everyone who has LCD-2s (or any comparable headphones) and a CD player living with the inconvenience of being stuck within the first 20% of the volume knob on their amp?

 

[Mr Rick]

Hey guys, I have to get this off my chest. I'm hoping people can chime in with their experiences as well, because I can't be the only one!

Context: My main headphones are the LCD-2; my source is a CD player that outputs a fixed 2 Vrms.

With my Burson Soloist, the LCD-2 are driven pretty loud around 9 o'clock on the volume knob. Because the Burson uses a stepped attenuator, it's very hard to find the desired volume output with louder recordings.

I also have a Headfive lying around, which I tried recently. Same thing: LCD-2 are driven to loud volumes under 9 o'clock, giving me very little range to play with on the volume knob.

Now, I know that the Soloist has 3 gain settings: 2x, 6x and 8x. I don't know what the gain is on the Headfive. I figured that getting an O2 with a 1x gain might give me more usable range on the volume knob. I was actually pretty excited about this.

Nope! The LCD-2 are driven to painfully loud volumes at merely 8:30 on the volume knob, even on 1x gain!

So basically, the volume control is impractical on all my amps. With the stepped attenuator, I can't fine tune the volume to my liking (it's usually hidden between 2 steps). With an ALPS pot, I have to use surgical precision when adjusting volume and I'm always sitting close to the channel imbalance region.

Is it like this for everybody? Is everyone who has LCD-2s (or any comparable headphones) and a CD player living with the inconvenience of being stuck within the first 20% of the volume knob on their amp?

I know one thing. You would be a lot better off if you could find a CD player with a fixed output of 1 Vrms.

 

[thoughtcriminal]

I have the same problem. Currently have an iPod>lod>fiio e11k setup and I'm at 2.5 on the volume knob on low gain. Any lower and I lose dynamics. Any higher and my ears hurt after long sessions

 

[Mr Rick]

Hey guys, I have to get this off my chest. I'm hoping people can chime in with their experiences as well, because I can't be the only one!

Context: My main headphones are the LCD-2; my source is a CD player that outputs a fixed 2 Vrms.

With my Burson Soloist, the LCD-2 are driven pretty loud around 9 o'clock on the volume knob. Because the Burson uses a stepped attenuator, it's very hard to find the desired volume output with louder recordings.

I also have a Headfive lying around, which I tried recently. Same thing: LCD-2 are driven to loud volumes under 9 o'clock, giving me very little range to play with on the volume knob.

Now, I know that the Soloist has 3 gain settings: 2x, 6x and 8x. I don't know what the gain is on the Headfive. I figured that getting an O2 with a 1x gain might give me more usable range on the volume knob. I was actually pretty excited about this.

Nope! The LCD-2 are driven to painfully loud volumes at merely 8:30 on the volume knob, even on 1x gain!

So basically, the volume control is impractical on all my amps. With the stepped attenuator, I can't fine tune the volume to my liking (it's usually hidden between 2 steps). With an ALPS pot, I have to use surgical precision when adjusting volume and I'm always sitting close to the channel imbalance region.

Is it like this for everybody? Is everyone who has LCD-2s (or any comparable headphones) and a CD player living with the inconvenience of being stuck within the first 20% of the volume knob on their amp?

Actually I have a better idea. Buy yourself a Schiit SYS volume control and two input switch. With that, you can lower the output of your CD player. Basically you would set the volume control on the SYS to minimum, you would then bring the gain control on your Soloist up to say 12 o'clock. Then you would bring up the volume control on the SYS until you get to a comfortable listening level out of the Soloist. If used this way your Soloist should have a much more usable range of adjustment.  

 

[joseph69]

I also have a Soloist…but never had issues your having, at all. But I was unhappy with the DACT stepped attenuator (at first). I contacted Burson and asked about the Alps potentiometer which is a (wipe) volume control, and they told that they would send me one if I wanted for $25.00. The DACT consists of 24 resistors and delivers the best possible balance between channels. My issue with the DACT was how hard it was for me to rotate between detents with the very shallow knob and my dry hands, this was my only issue, so I put a black 7/16" rubber band on the knob for grip, and I ended up actually liking the DACT after getting use to it. I like it so much I may have one put in my HeadAmp GS-1.

 

[Music Alchemist]

The LCD-2 has an impedance of 70 ohms and sensitivity of 101 dB/mW. That's fairly easy to drive.
 
If you want more volume knob range, you'll need one of the following:
 

1. A headphone with higher impedance and/or lower sensitivity.
2. Source components with lower output power.
3. A preamp to attenuate the volume. (As per Mr. Rick's great suggestion.)

 

[mindbomb]

Yea, I have experienced this. I use a xonar d1 (2vrms), a fiio e11k (-4db gain), and sennheisser 558 (112 db/v). People generally say to aim for 110db spl, and I only overshot that by a few db (114db). I find myself using close to the maximum attenuation my analog potentionmeter can provide without channel balance issues plus -14db from digital volume control. Furthermore, I imagine there must be people much worse off than me, since there are more sensitive headphones as well as amps with much more gain (the original magni had +14db of gain for example).
 
I suspect 105 or 100 db would have been a more reasonable target.

 

[Zojokkeli]

Same here. Using TH900's out of a Japanese Bakoon amp fed by Schiit Bifrost. I can live with my problem, although it is annoying.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Hey guys, I have to get this off my chest. I'm hoping people can chime in with their experiences as well, because I can't be the only one!

Context: My main headphones are the LCD-2; my source is a CD player that outputs a fixed 2 Vrms.

With my Burson Soloist, the LCD-2 are driven pretty loud around 9 o'clock on the volume knob. Because the Burson uses a stepped attenuator, it's very hard to find the desired volume output with louder recordings.

I also have a Headfive lying around, which I tried recently. Same thing: LCD-2 are driven to loud volumes under 9 o'clock, giving me very little range to play with on the volume knob.

Now, I know that the Soloist has 3 gain settings: 2x, 6x and 8x. I don't know what the gain is on the Headfive. I figured that getting an O2 with a 1x gain might give me more usable range on the volume knob. I was actually pretty excited about this.

Nope! The LCD-2 are driven to painfully loud volumes at merely 8:30 on the volume knob, even on 1x gain!

So basically, the volume control is impractical on all my amps. With the stepped attenuator, I can't fine tune the volume to my liking (it's usually hidden between 2 steps). With an ALPS pot, I have to use surgical precision when adjusting volume and I'm always sitting close to the channel imbalance region.

Is it like this for everybody? Is everyone who has LCD-2s (or any comparable headphones) and a CD player living with the inconvenience of being stuck within the first 20% of the volume knob on their amp?

 

You can get a passive preamp, like what Niles has, for not a lot of money and put that between your CDP and the Soloist.

 

What CDP is that anyway? You sure it's just 2v? Because I've run into some DACs that later turned out were pumping way over 2v -

 my modded DAC-AH measured 2.5volts while the SuperPro 707 has around 6.5volts. That's already the rated max listenable output of a Pioneer car audio receiver - SQ people buy it for the processors, bassheads buy it for its up to 6.5v "clean" (yeah, right) output to feed a 1,000watt subwoofer amp (whcih has its own gain anyway, so honestly I still don't see why people think that a 5ft RCA cable always necessitates more than 2v in cars).

 

[Kevin.T]

   

You can get a passive preamp, like what Niles has, for not a lot of money and put that between your CDP and the Soloist.

 

What CDP is that anyway? You sure it's just 2v? Because I've run into some DACs that later turned out were pumping way over 2v -

 my modded DAC-AH measured 2.5volts while the SuperPro 707 has around 6.5volts. That's already the rated max listenable output of a Pioneer car audio receiver - SQ people buy it for the processors, bassheads buy it for its up to 6.5v "clean" (yeah, right) output to feed a 1,000watt subwoofer amp (whcih has its own gain anyway, so honestly I still don't see why people think that a 5ft RCA cable always necessitates more than 2v in cars).

Right now I'm using a Yamaha CD-S300. Just to be 1000% sure, I checked and yeah, the output level is listed as "2 ± 0.3 V (1 kHZ, 0 dB)". (source: http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/hifi-components/cd-players/cd-s300__g/)

I actually had thought of purchasing a Schiit SYS before making this thread. However, it adds another potentiometer in the chain, which I'm not a fan of. I might end up getting one eventually, especially if I want to use my SR-225i or Sennheiser Momentum with my current set-up.

 

[Mr Rick]

 

Right now I'm using a Yamaha CD-S300. Just to be 1000% sure, I checked and yeah, the output level is listed as "2 ± 0.3 V (1 kHZ, 0 dB)". (source: http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/hifi-components/cd-players/cd-s300__g/)

I actually had thought of purchasing a Schiit SYS before making this thread. However, it adds another potentiometer in the chain, which I'm not a fan of. I might end up getting one eventually, especially if I want to use my SR-225i or Sennheiser Momentum with my current set-up.

You could devise a voltage divider circuit and attach it to the output of the Yamaha. Or, use the gain potentiometer in the SYS. Same thing really.

 

[kramer5150]

The common misconception on HeadFi is that amplifiers have to amplify.  Which is not always correct.  Unless you listen at ear bleedingly loud levels, or your source line out is anemically under-achieving an amplifier is nothing more than an attenuator + impedance matcher.  It also serves as a device that can color the sound and enhance the signal with its own sonic signature if you one of those who can hear differences in amp circuits.
 
A +/- 2V swing is more than enough potential to drive most headphones... so the above scenario is what you are looking at, and as you have discovered a unity gain amplification stage is more than sufficient with that particular headphone and your particular listening levels.
 
Theres nothing wrong at all with only using the first little twist of the volume knob.  So long as the pot is linear tracking all the way down and you don't have channel imbalance issues.
 
IIRC the step-attenuator in the soloist is a plug in component... I don't think it would be too hard to add a resistor inline on that cable harness to the R/L + feeding the attenuator.
 

 

[ProtegeManiac]

With my Burson Soloist, the LCD-2 are driven pretty loud around 9 o'clock on the volume knob. Because the Burson uses a stepped attenuator, it's very hard to find the desired volume output with louder recordings.

 
I missed that part - why not just run your audio files through ReplayGain? 

 

[Kevin.T]

   
I missed that part - why not just run your audio files through ReplayGain? 

 
Because I listen to original CDs using my CD player, amp and headphones. I realize this limits the flexibility of my setup given my situation, but I like the low-noise operation of a CD player over a computer which has fan noise. This might change some day, but not for now.

BTW, thank you everyone for the responses!

 

[kramer5150]

Side note... I too like to listen to original CDs from time to time.  I don't use a CD player though. For almost a decade I've preferred to use a DVD player as an optical transport, either by toslink optical or coax digital to feed the bit stream to my DAC.  One of the benefits (on most DVD players) is you can attenuate the volume in the digital realm before the analog conversion stage.