Which USB DAC option is best for audio from a PC?

[Mauricio]

I gave the RME ADI-2 a look.  Looks nice, but it goes for $900.  I don't know where you get the idea that an RME DAC is cheap.

 

[Acix]

Quote:

I thought those labels, "smooth", "neutral", "bright", were the subjective characteristics that people had come to attribute to certain DAC chips.  I did not know that those labels were the measurable outcome of premeditated and deliberate attempts to color the signal.
 
And yes, I fully endorse your view that the most marginal benefits to be reaped are in the analog link of the signal chain, the speakers.  For $3,300 I'd spend $300 on a DAC and $3,000 on the speakers.
 
I looked into the RME ADI-2, their only two-channel DA converter.  They want $950!  What?

If you need more than two channel in and out + pre amps you can go for the RME 800, or Some exotic Apogee, and if are okay with two channel the RME HDSP 9632 Hammerfall DSP 24/96K PCI can make the job very well, and you'll save some money for the acoustic room treatment.
 

 

[Mauricio]

PCI?  Dude, the last time I owned a desktop computer was in the previous century.

 

[Acix]

Quote:

I gave the RME ADI-2 a look.  Looks nice, but it goes for $900.  I don't know where you get the idea that an RME DAC is cheap.

The RME PCI card is cheap for what you get, and for studio base PC you'll get the best drivers out of the RME. I don't have experience with the Chinese new DAC's, but some of them are new for around $300.

 

[Acix]

Quote:

PCI?  Dude, the last time I owned a desktop computer was in the previous century.

 
Well... in this case better have a deep wallet, or go China.  

 

[RonaldDumsfeld]

 
Quote:

I gave the RME ADI-2 a look.  Looks nice, but it goes for $900.  I don't know where you get the idea that an RME DAC is cheap.

 
We need to know where the OP lives.
 
In Europe the BenchMark DAC1 USB costs $1,500. The RME ADI-2 costs $600.
 
If he is US based the Benchmark is $1,000. The RME is $900.
 
It would appear simply crossing the Atlantic in either direction adds ~$300 to the price of both devices. Lord help him if he lives in Australia or something...
 
You are not comparing like for like either. The Benchmark only manages digital stereo in and analogue stereo out, The RME works in both directions.
 
So if the OP lives in Europe lives in Europe it's a no-brainer. The RME costs less than half as much and offers twice the functionality. If he is US based on the other hand it is not quite such a clear cut decision - provided that is that the OP is absolutely certain he will never want to record analogue sources to a high standard (ripping vinyl for example).
 
 
 
That wasn't my point though.
 
Follow the link I posted to the RME UCX spec. It is a staggeringly versatile, full function audio interface as opposed to a simple format converter. 4 analogue stereo channels in/4 analogue stereo out (plus 10 channels of digital in either direction), a complete software mixing and effects package including multiband sweepable EQ, compressors and reverb, remote control, MIDI I/O,  mic and instrument inputs, a monitor controller plus the option to use Firewire as well as USB.
 
All that and it's still $250 cheaper than the Benchmark in Europe!! It is ~$500 more in the US however. I still think that's a decent deal but he could easily opt for a Babyface or Fireface 400 which are more or less the same thing without the effects package. Alternatively he could down brand slightly and get something like The MOTU Ultralite Hybrid which has the virtually the same spec as the UCX, uses the same family of converters but costs between half and a third of the price depending which side of the pond you live.
 
The bigger picture is about options and versatility. The OP appears to want to build himself a state of the art domestic hi-fi and prepared to pay for it. If he's working and it's his hobby it's not really that much money either. However whilst he is going 100% digital source via the (as yet unspecified) PC he is still in danger of locking himself into the same old hi-fi separates  paradigm. It's Source > DAC >  active speakers and that's it.
 
What I'm suggesting he consider is replacing and old routing and switching capabilities we used to have with an old integrated amp with the stunningly greater flexibility of a full on audio interface. I know it's a hard sell if all you are familiar with is a hi-fi. I myself had no idea how useful I would find multichannel audio until I first took the plunge. Now I'd never consider being without it again. I've almost become a zealot - as this post proves......   
 
 

 

 

[meirionwyllt]

You certainly make a compelling case for the RME.  I like the fact that you can control all that from the PC.  But I wonder if it's overkill for me.  But I like the idea of DSP.  could the DSP be done on a purely software level?  i.e. software on the PC doing the DSP rather than having hardware DSP such as the RME and having software control it?)  Would doing it purely with software be a bad way in terms of audio quality?  This ties in with my earlier question of which media player I should use.
 
I would like to doing a bit of vinyl rippring at some point - old stuff that never made it onto CD.  But I already own an M-Audio Firewire 410 on another PC that I use to make music on.  I could rip vinyl on that, which can record at 24/96 - although I realise that this is not in the same league as an RME.
 
I live in Wales, which is in the UK.  But as it happens, I'll be going to San Francisco for three weeks in a couple of weeks time, to visit a friend.  So I could either buy things in a store when over there, or order from US websites in the next few days and have them sent to my friend's house.  In terms of getting stuff for a cheap price, could you recommend either any good places in San Fran, of any cheap online dealers in the US?
 
By the way, my PC is a Fujitsu-Siemens Scenic C610, but if I'm gonna spend so much on a hifi system I will certainly upgrade my PC if it will help the sound in any way.  Will it?
 
Thanks

 

[Acix]

Quote:

You certainly make a compelling case for the RME.  I like the fact that you can control all that from the PC.  But I wonder if it's overkill for me.  But I like the idea of DSP.  could the DSP be done on a purely software level?  i.e. software on the PC doing the DSP rather than having hardware DSP such as the RME and having software control it?)  Would doing it purely with software be a bad way in terms of audio quality?  This ties in with my earlier question of which media player I should use.
 
I would like to doing a bit of vinyl rippring at some point - old stuff that never made it onto CD.  But I already own an M-Audio Firewire 410 on another PC that I use to make music on.  I could rip vinyl on that, which can record at 24/96 - although I realise that this is not in the same league as an RME.
 
I live in Wales, which is in the UK.  But as it happens, I'll be going to San Francisco for three weeks in a couple of weeks time, to visit a friend.  So I could either buy things in a store when over there, or order from US websites in the next few days and have them sent to my friend's house.  In terms of getting stuff for a cheap price, could you recommend either any good places in San Fran, of any cheap online dealers in the US?
 
By the way, my PC is a Fujitsu-Siemens Scenic C610, but if I'm gonna spend so much on a hifi system I will certainly upgrade my PC if it will help the sound in any way.  Will it?
 
Thanks

 
Guitar center on Van Ness, will be a great start... then Robot Speak , Haight @ Steiner.

 

[meirionwyllt]

Couldn't find any Benchmark or Focal stuff in any of those.  Are there any US-wide online dealers, not necessarily based in San Franciso, that do mail order to the US states?

 

[Acix]

Quote:

Couldn't find any Benchmark or Focal stuff in any of those.  Are there any US-wide online dealers, not necessarily based in San Franciso, that do mail order to the US states?

Maybe try first to see what they have to offer you there, Adam, Genelec, Apogee, RME...give them a chance.

 

 

[RonaldDumsfeld]

All the effects and DSP is done at the software level. You can control it either from your PC or the controls on the interface front panel.
 
Genuine 'vintage' effects units are now eye wateringly expensive. Most of the affordable models you will find on sale actually contain a DAC themselves. They convert the signal to digital, process that then convert it back again for output.
 
I use foobar2000 for everyday audio playback. I'm a programmer myself by trade and appreciatte the light footprint, ease of use, and defensive nature of the coding. Initially it looks deceptively simple but instead of coming complete with everything you might ever possibly want a la M$ bloatware whenever you think of a feature you might find useful you download it and install yourself. That way after a few months you find yourself with a player you understand intimately (because you designed and built it it yourself)  which is uniquely tailored to your requirements. It's one of those products that people fall in love with so the website is always busy and helpful. So if you do get a problem help is easy to find.
 
btw I'm not trying to sell you anything, much less a particular brand, so much as share my experience with a concept I've been very pleased to discover.
 
I wanted a nice desktop system and started out with an in expensive M-Audio Fast Track interface and AV40 speakers. I was so delighted with the result that when the AV40s broke down after only 6 months I invested in a set of ADAM speakers and the MOTU Ultralight. I'm in no particular hurry to upgrade the MOTU but if I had my chance again I'd have plunked down the extra for the RME straight off.
 
Since then I've bought a sub and more or less done away with my old component based hi-fi and floorstanding speakers. I'm now in the process of designing and building a dedicated media centre PC based around a low power Pentium G620T chip (core to duo by another name but only 35W vs 135W for the i7). That way I think I can do without fans entirely.
 
If you do buy anything in the States be sure to take it out of the box and make it look a bit used before you bring it through customs just in case .
 
Thanks for asking the questions. I have been interested to discover how much differing products cost in different markets. So it's all good.

 

[meirionwyllt]

Hey thanks for the Foobar2000 tip.  I've been looking for something that isn't as resource hungry and annoying as WMP, and something that is not as buggy ac VLC.  So I'll definitely give that a go.  Looks like it has a nice, straight-forward interface too.  Would you recommend K-lite Mega Codec Pack to be used with this, or does it have its own codecs for the various video formats?

This definitely satisfies my "maybe the speakers will be too dry" concern.  I'd say it's even better this way because I'll be able to "give" my speakers a certain feeling, but do it at the source instead, and experiment to see what suits my room.
 
So, if I can do all the necessary DSP stuff to give my sound some warmth (or whatever my room might need) by using a plugin into Foobar2000 (or something similar), is this a "less good" way of doing it than, say, your example of RME unit, contolled by the PC.  I mean in terms of audio quality?  Or would it be no different?  I'm still weighing up pros and cons of Benchmark vs RME.
 
Great to hear that you're a bit of a PC DIY'er.  As a matter of interest, how are you going to get the power down so much?  Are you actually modifying the motherboard itself, or just unplugging things from it?  And is that 35W with the optical drive or without?
 
Also, thanks for the tip about taking things through customs - I'll make sure to sit on the (empty) box or something.
 
Thanks again.

 

[eddiek997]

Foobar/Dac/Amps/speakers/cables etc etc....
 
No matter how much you spend, if you've ripped your music in lossy (low bitrate mp3) theres a limit as to what you can achieve to produce excellence in audio quality no matter how much you spend.
 
If it's not Flac (or similar) you will always suffer fidelity issues.
 
sh1t in, sh1t out.
 
 
 

 

[ROBSCIX]

I agree, if you want the best quality possible, you need to start with lossless media.  This way there is no question about the quality.
Your audio chain is only as good as the weakest link.

 

[meirionwyllt]

God yes!  Couldn't agree more - the lossless penny has long since dropped 
 
But thanks for the thought.