[pinkfloyd4ever]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaizer /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hah.. wow thanks for all the replies. Seems ive opened a few cans of worms

I love it when that happens. That's the beauty of places like head-fi, us newbs learn so much watching these juicy discussions & debates that the veterans get into

So anyone got any other thoughts on tips or my shaky hands? anyone else recall seeing someone who's now a DIY veteran who also has (had?) really shaky hands talking about building their first amp, maybe a MINT, using some kind of crap iron? They said they had to take some kind of drugs to calm the shaking, and the nice soldering station they have now helps alot. This sound familiar to anyone? I'd like to ask him what medicine he used. Quote:

Originally Posted by pinkfloyd4ever /img/forum/go_quote.gif hmm I suppose you're right, I'm just a little uneasy because its large tip radius reminded me of the crap ratshack one. Ya I have VEEERRYYY shaky hands, so I was thinking a smaller one might be better for me, maybe the 45x-T-SC, 45x-T-1C, or 45x-T-2C. Would those be too small? I remember seeing someone talking about taking some kind of medicine that calmed their shaking while using some crap iron, i believe a ratshack, one a tiny & complex project, does anyone know what that'd be? I actually have some that I take to reduce tremors, but it doesn't work too well anymore

oh and here's the link to the hakko tips available for the Dash series

 

[Seaside]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinkfloyd4ever /img/forum/go_quote.gif So anyone got any other thoughts on tips or my shaky hands? anyone else recall seeing someone who's now a DIY veteran who also has (had?) really shaky hands talking about building their first amp, maybe a MINT, using some kind of crap iron?

I am not sure I am a veteran or not though... I used the iron more crappy than that of radioshack when I first build some radio kit back in... the past.
I had shaky hands too. I can get out of that after I quit weed and booze.

I know it is hard to solder for someone like you with shaky hands.
The key is practice, practice and practice. You will eventually feel way better after a few soldering practice.
How to solder things right? Some people used to recommend me solder ten 2200 hole purf boards, trying to make the solder blob as smooth as I can. Sounds so boring, isn't it? I did not followed their method though, I realized that I almost spent that amount of purf board when I feel little better about my own soldering.

 

[duchamp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mono /img/forum/go_quote.gif duchamp, you left out a lot of specifics, but here's the pinout on the iron's plug. I suspect this along with measurements as mentioned below will find the fault in the handle, cord or plug. You can get a replacement handle for about $12, but Circuit Specialists shipping is kind of steep, it might be cheaper total cost here if factoring for that. Pin Function ==================== 1 - Thermal Sensor A 2 - Thermal Sensor B 3 - Tip/sleeve Gnd 4 - Heater A 5 - Heater B There is only continuity between pin 1 - 2 and between pin 4 - 5, check that none are shorting out against another and not to ground pin either. Heater resistance cold is probably too low to measure reliably with only a meter, Certainly under 1 Ohm but it was heating so we can ignore it. Cold Resistance of pin 1 - 2 is approx 22 Ohm. Setting the base temp to 340C, about halfway and letting temp stabilize, resistance of pin 1 - 2 (about 5 seconds after iron is unplugged from base, it will be rising as iron cools) is approx 9.5 Ohm The calibration hole trimmer should not need changed to get the iron to work in general, it only fine-tunes the resultant temp vs pot travel. I would turn it back to roughly the original position it was in for the time being or in the middle of it's travel if you can't remember where it was set before then focus on it after rest is working.

Thanks mono, I'll take a look this weekend- just got back in town.

 

[AndrewFischer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinkfloyd4ever /img/forum/go_quote.gif ps. Andrew, where do you see used soldering stations for $40?

I almost forgot about the Edsyn 1032 I bought for $45. HMC sells them new for about $1000.

Link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...3166&rd=1&rd=1


The unit I got is not the one pictured

The one they sent does work. No tip so I haven't tried using it yet. Date code is August 1992. It has the wrong pod on top. Pod is for an iron without the air fittings. Unit in photo has the correct pod.

I sent the seller a note asking if they will swap out the pod. Auction was clearly marked as is. Even if they won't I can get a new pod and still be way ahead on price.

a.

 

[AndrewFischer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaizer /img/forum/go_quote.gif In the meantime I got a cheap 13 dollar weller iron that came with a hot knife attachment

LOL

 

[beerguy0]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mono /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think the point might be that there is no iron that can be used to sufficient heat up one point on a large continuous ground plane without overheating the part being soldered to it. No matter how massive the tip or fast the element is at reheating to maintain temp, a special technique will be necessary. That involves only pre-heating the larger part to the appropriate temp while isolating the more delicate part as much as possible from the heat, then bringing that part up to temp by method of (bridging solering iron tip across both parts, or sometimes I use a tool (depends on part, a pick or forceps or needle-noise pliers, etc) to hold the lead away then press it down on the copper, that tool also 'sinking some heat off the lead) and then flowing the solder across them. It is a bit of a workaround though since a delicate IC should not be soldered directly to a solid ground plane for this (difficulty in soldering) reason. Any professionally made board should have the thermal reliefs around the pad or hole and those who roll their own boards should also consider doing it.

I work in an engineering lab, and do a lot of difficult soldering, such as 0402 passive components soldered directly a solid ground plane, on 2 oz. copper, multi-layer PWBs. A Metcal is really the only do do this type of soldering, at least at the bench level. I've seen the heating technigue used, but it's not practical for every time you want to change a component value. We typically reserve that technique for ICs that require a thermal bond to ground.

Many of the designs I work on have no thermal relief on the grounds, for specific reasons. Thermal relief drives up the impedance of the ground vias, which can impact the performance of certain circuits, like switching power supplies, or RF amplifiers, especially as you get up to the GHz range. Probably not an issue for audio, but if you're buying expensive low-ESR caps, why add more resistance?

 

[randerson3024]

I do a fair bit of soldering in my line of work (radar engineer)

. Try a Weller WES50, or whatever series you can get with an adjustable thermostat and a variety of tips. Keep that bad boy at 740 degrees, and it should work well.

Cheers

 

[lini]

I did most of my hobby soldering with an Ersa 30 so far (with flat screwdriver shaped tip) - worked quite well for stuff like making interconnects, modding computers (C64, Amiga, Playstation), small diy projects (e.g. my audio digitizer and midi interface for the Amiga), some repair jobs (replacing some small smd resistor arrays on my old Sony tv). The big tip is a bit of a challenge with smd stuff, though...

. Lately, however, I've discovered the fun of gas powered soldering irons (Iroda, Portasol...): cordless sometimes comes in very handy.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[AndrewFischer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinkfloyd4ever /img/forum/go_quote.gif So anyone got any other thoughts on tips or my shaky hands?

Thoughts, not tips. My hands are steady. These are random thoughts.

If you can, go to a Fry's or some store that has a large range of irons on display. Try the different irons and see if some of them are easier to hold steady. There is a wide range of sizes and weights. The whole Weller vs. Hakko vs. Metcal vs. Edsyn vs. Aoyue vs. ... is moot if one of those irons is easier to hold steady.

Stick to projects with larger components.

If you must solder tiny surface mount parts, try a hot air station. You don't need to hold the air nozzle steady at all. Even placing the part is less critical as surface tension will pop it into place. If you haven't already seen them, take a look at the videos here: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/pre...?p=SMD-HowTo-7


Drugs? To paraphrase I'm an Engineer not a Doctor. I would see a neurologist or other specialist. The drug that is right for one person may be wrong for you.

 

[duchamp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinkfloyd4ever /img/forum/go_quote.gif So anyone got any other thoughts on tips or my shaky hands? anyone else recall seeing someone who's now a DIY veteran who also has (had?) really shaky hands talking about building their first amp, maybe a MINT, using some kind of crap iron? They said they had to take some kind of drugs to calm the shaking, and the nice soldering station they have now helps alot. This sound familiar to anyone? I'd like to ask him what medicine he used.

There can be several causes of shaking hands. The first one is what is referred to as "essential." This type comes with age and is ideopathic, or has no real known cause. MD's often prescribe Beta-blockers or other agents that work to stabilize neuromuscular activity, depending on the severity and how much it interferes with your normal activities. (Your MD might not consider your DIY activities normal. Don't reveal the amount of $ you've spent or he/she may send you for a psych eval!

) The other causes include excess caffeine, anxiety, and basically anything that results in over-stimulation or under-regulation of the sympathetic nervous system. Another more severe cause is Parkinsons, but that's unlikely. Low blood sugar and over active thyroid are other causes. The medications you take also may cause hand tremors as as a normal side effect. One of mine does and I just have to deal with it ( I use another object to stabilize my hand.) Hope that helps- sorry it's a bit off topic but I know this problem can interfere with fine soldering for many people.

 

[pinkfloyd4ever]

Wow, I wasn't expecting that good of an answer, are you a med student, duchamp? I have A.D.D and take stimulants for it (concerta, ritalin) and I'm pretty sure that's what causes it b/c i never had it before i started taking it and I don't think its from age since I'm only 21. I take a drug for the skaking called Guanfacine (generic for Tenex) that my doctor gave me, but it doesn't work as well as it used to. My parents read somewhere that magnesium can also help tremors in people w/nervous tics & disorders, so I started taking that everyday too and it seemed to help alot for the first couple weeks, but now it seems like the shaking is worse than ever now. Jeez, I think I'm gonna make a doctor's apointment

 

[AndrewFischer]

Since people will be reading this thread for years to come:

A soldering iron is not something to go cheap on. Expect to spend at least $80 for a new tool.

If you are an engineering student, if you are planning to build an amplifier, if you don't like burning your fingers, buy decent tools.

Quality tools help you build quality prodects. Quality tools last. In the long run good tools will cost you less money. I've had one of my solder stations for over 15 years and it still works great. My DVM is about 20 years old. I was a working poor student when I bought the DVM. It was worth it.

 

[mono]

I have no idea where you get that figure Andrew, while someone experienced at soldering and having particularly difficult jobs might need *something* in particular for that job, the vast majority of the soldering work will not benefit even the tiniest little bit paying $80 versus, $50, and the average stuff built here would be acceptible with 2 x $10 irons, one low wattage with fine tip and one higher with broader tip.

Paying for an $80 iron does not help you build quality products in a general sense. To some the cost is acceptible but to be clear, if there is any trouble building a headamp with a far cheaper iron the problem is NOT the iron providing it at least gets hot enough and has a reasonable quality iron clad tip, rather than the crude copper-nail-plated-with-nickle type.

An iron is only a tool, how you use it makes the difference. Inexperienced or poor method will have a worse result with a $200 iron than an experienced user with a $10 iron.

 

[AndrewFischer]

Just curious mono. What soldering iron or irons do you use? What have you tried?


Quote:

Originally Posted by mono /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have no idea where you get that figure Andrew,

AFIAK the Hakko 936 is the least expensive quality closed-loop temperature controlled station you can buy.


Quote:

The vast majority of the soldering work will not benefit even the tiniest little bit paying $80 versus, $50,

If you are talking Hakko vs. Hakko clone, I agree. If you know how to solder, the finished work will be the same. The clone handle gets hot but you can fix that by wrapping it in tape. But then you are holding an iron wrapped in tape. The clones are not as well made. If you pay a little extra for a real Hakko, you should have a tool for life.


As for the rest, I disagree. The $10 irons are miserable to use. Worthless stand. No tip sponge. The handles get uncomfortably hot. Terrible balance. Let them sit for a few minutes and the tips get to 1000F or even hotter. The irons themselves are poorly made and don't last long.

I didn't say a quality iron builds a quality product. I said it helps you do that. Of course I can get a decent solder connection with a $10 iron. With a $10 iron your hand is getting really hot. You constantly have to worry about the tip falling out of the tin stand and burning your bench. The tips keep getting corroded because the idle temp is too high and the tips are junk. All of this distracts you from the task at hand. A noob might get frustrated.

(56K warning)
http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~af...man_Weller.JPG

I've had that Weller about 15 years.
Anyone who is looking at this as a profession or a serious hobby should just skip the entire cheap iron experience.

 

[mono]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewFischer /img/forum/go_quote.gif As for the rest, I disagree. The $10 irons are miserable to use. Worthless stand. No tip sponge. The handles get uncomfortably hot. Terrible balance. Let them sit for a few minutes and the tips get to 1000F or even hotter. The irons themselves are poorly made and don't last long.

Who can't find a sponge? Whether you "like" a stand or not or whether it functionally does the job are two different things. Naturally if you pay more you get certain luxuries but that is not same thing as attributes of fitness towards soldering (for our purposes, headamps, etc).

Quote:

I didn't say a quality iron builds a quality product. I said it helps you do that.

Yeah, like a Ferrari would help me drive to the store to audition cans.

Quote:

Of course I can get a decent solder connection with a $10 iron. With a $10 iron your hand is getting really hot.

Hardly, finding one wand that gets hot is not an indictment of all irons. Most don't get uncomfortably hot to hold, unless you were running the iron too hot for the jobs. IOW, we're not generally soldering 100 12 gauge leads at a time.

Quote:

You constantly have to worry about the tip falling out of the tin stand and burning your bench. The tips keep getting corroded because the idle temp is too high and the tips are junk. All of this distracts you from the task at hand. A noob might get frustrated.

I have no idea what you mean about tips falling out. I think you are trying hard to dislike something most people could use fine. Tips are not necessarily any lower quality than Weller's, it all depends on what you consider a $10 iron. Maybe I should have wrote $20 as I tend to remember lowest prices rather than regular prices.

In the end you are making suggestions as if they are important at soldering when actually it's a matter of personal preference, what you in particular deem worth a buck or two. Let others make that decision without the invalid statement that they should expect to spend $80. Maybe by someone else's standards they should expect to spend $200. Still not applicable to the real need, which is only to choose the right wattage or temp for the job and have a reasonable tip.

If you are doing production work where the iron is expected to run several hours every day, THEN it becomes more important how well it's built, and/or replacement part availability. 15 years is not long enough to expect any reasonably made iron to have failed so long as it doesn't use the cheapest of nichrome elements. Anything you randomly grab should run that long in a hobbyist use if it's not left running unattended for days at a time because it was forgotten. "If" someone is prone to doing that, for safety reasons alone it might justify one with an automatic shutoff but again this is a per-user need.