[Galeonero]

Hi people, I'm thinking of buying a pair of headphones to play PS4 / 5 and watch movies with an iFi Zen DAC v2 in the future.
I'm looking for one that has a good sense of spatial sound (I don't know if that's the exact word) or soundstage I think it's said, I'm not talking about virtual 7.1 or 5.1 sound (which is totally artificial and neither is really good).
It happened to me a lot with the FiiO FA1, the sound was very wide. But unfortunately the in-ears get tired and hurt, I'm looking for something open over-ear or maybe with on-ear I don't know if I can handle this.
I had in sight some Sennheiser HD58x or KOSS Porta PRO + yazi pads, I know they are two different worlds and also in price but they are the headphones that I read the most good reviews

 

[IDrinkLava]

I run a channel about 3D audio in gaming and I've found that there really is no difference between the $2 Parts Express headphones and the $1500 Sennheiser HD 800 for HRTF localization once you EQ them to something close to perceptually-flat. The bottleneck is the game engine, and I find most modern games sound like total crap compared to older games. Etymotic Research IEMs tend to sound more lifelike than most others, but that's really only because they insert deeper than anything else.

 

[Galeonero]

I run a channel about 3D audio in gaming and I've found that there really is no difference between the $2 Parts Express headphones and the $1500 Sennheiser HD 800 for HRTF localization once you EQ them to something close to perceptually-flat. The bottleneck is the game engine, and I find most modern games sound like total crap compared to older games. Etymotic Research IEMs tend to sound more lifelike than most others, but that's really only because they insert deeper than anything else.

Spatial audio as a sound effect is very bad.
Nowadays many games, when they are well done, use positional stereo mode, let's say or HRTF.
Games like The Witcher 3, The last of us 1 (from the PS3) and 2, are the games that are heard the most real, nor would you realize that you are playing with stereo headphones because it surrounds you in an incredible way.
But this effect right now with my Sony MDR-100AP is not produced as much as in the in-ear that I had, I think it is because of what you say that they go into the ear and these Sony are as far away from the driver so that feeling does not happen.

 

[IDrinkLava]

Games like The Witcher 3, The last of us 1 (from the PS3) and 2, are the games that are heard the most real, nor would you realize that you are playing with stereo headphones because it surrounds you in an incredible way.

Neither of these games support HRTF natively. The best you can hope for is virtual surround, which lacks elevation effects compared to true object-based 3D audio.

 

[GREQ]

I run a channel about 3D audio in gaming and I've found that there really is no difference between the $2 Parts Express headphones and the $1500 Sennheiser HD 800 for HRTF localization once you EQ them to something close to perceptually-flat. The bottleneck is the game engine, and I find most modern games sound like total crap compared to older games. Etymotic Research IEMs tend to sound more lifelike than most others, but that's really only because they insert deeper than anything else.

More people need to realize this.

Every time you add 3D processing, you're just doing MORE processing on top of existing processing.
Stereo headphones + game engine audio is almost always the best, most realistic '3D' sound.

I used to work in the video game industry and even within that big company, most people had no idea about audio (just like people in real life) aside from the audio department... which was slightly frustrating still to work with at times since the engine limitations were horrible to work with sometimes.

 

[pjones5]

Sennheiser HD560s as an open-back option, or (if you can believe it) Sivga 021 as a closed option. The latter is a little bass heavy but surprisingly good for detail retrieval and positioning for a closed back.

 

[lpd2]

I like to have isolation and large drivers. The Sony Z7 are my favorite all time for gaming. Now they make the Z7M2. So-called spatial audio is super for an 11.2 speaker system if set up properly and if the source material is natively atmos or dtsx. There are a bunch of crazy claims being marketed right now regarding spatial audio for 2ch headphones but ultimately you are viewing an image on a flat or nearly-flat screen and so it is better to have great stereo imaging than even decent surround "effects". I'm saying that my Z7 seem more 360' than a "7.1 surround headphone".

 

[Galeonero]

Neither of these games support HRTF natively. The best you can hope for is virtual surround, which lacks elevation effects compared to true object-based 3D audio.

I didn't mean to say that those games have HRFT, but they have some of the best stereo audio out there that feels real.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Hi people, I'm thinking of buying a pair of headphones to play PS4 / 5 and watch movies with an iFi Zen DAC v2 in the future.
I'm looking for one that has a good sense of spatial sound (I don't know if that's the exact word) or soundstage I think it's said, I'm not talking about virtual 7.1 or 5.1 sound (which is totally artificial and neither is really good).

Er...it will always be artificial because it is.

You only have two drivers doing the work of 5- or 7-channels plus subwoofer.

Everything is going to be electronically simulated with crossfeed and reverb to create depth in front of you, but it can't create depth behind you.

If you want non-artificial surround, you either go with physical 5- or 7-channel (plus subwoofer) speakers.

"But I don't want to deal with all those wires!" Well you're kind of in luck, because Sennheiser had physical multichannel personal audio before.

Although this photo would make it clear why they don't make it anymore.

Would be nice if it was painted gold...but then again, Musk's or Bezos' new direct to brain audio would be more realistic simulation of being a mouthless telepath.

It happened to me a lot with the FiiO FA1, the sound was very wide. But unfortunately the in-ears get tired and hurt, I'm looking for something open over-ear or maybe with on-ear I don't know if I can handle this.
I had in sight some Sennheiser HD58x or KOSS Porta PRO + yazi pads, I know they are two different worlds and also in price but they are the headphones that I read the most good reviews

Not even headphones outside your ears will get you real surround audio since they only have two drivers.

Unless...well...you actually had more than two...


Headphones can't even properly image stereo music because even if that was made for two speakers, they're made for two speakers. That means they're far from you and both ears can hear both drivers in the same room. At best headphones kind of mimics this plus Crossfeed on some electronics, but without recordings specifically designed so that each instrument plays a bit more or less across both channels as needed to simulate hearing two speakers within a tiny room, you're not going to hear real stereo. Although at least some headphones can manage to not be absolutely screwed up as to have the cymbals farther to the flanks of the soundstage like the drummer has really long arms.

 

[Galeonero]

Er...it will always be artificial because it is.

You only have two drivers doing the work of 5- or 7-channels plus subwoofer.

Everything is going to be electronically simulated with crossfeed and reverb to create depth in front of you, but it can't create depth behind you.

If you want non-artificial surround, you either go with physical 5- or 7-channel (plus subwoofer) speakers.

"But I don't want to deal with all those wires!" Well you're kind of in luck, because Sennheiser had physical multichannel personal audio before.

Although this photo would make it clear why they don't make it anymore.


Would be nice if it was painted gold...but then again, Musk's or Bezos' new direct to brain audio would be more realistic simulation of being a mouthless telepath.





Not even headphones outside your ears will get you real surround audio since they only have two drivers.

Unless...well...you actually had more than two...


Headphones can't even properly image stereo music because even if that was made for two speakers, they're made for two speakers. That means they're far from you and both ears can hear both drivers in the same room. At best headphones kind of mimics this plus Crossfeed on some electronics, but without recordings specifically designed so that each instrument plays a bit more or less across both channels as needed to simulate hearing two speakers within a tiny room, you're not going to hear real stereo. Although at least some headphones can manage to not be absolutely screwed up as to have the cymbals farther to the flanks of the soundstage like the drummer has really long arms.

Hello, but I am not looking for the one that is more realistic in 7.1 or 5.1, that does not interest me. If not which one gave them a better sense of spatiality.
The FiiO FA1 gave me a great sense of incredible spatiality, although many here disagree ...

 

[IDrinkLava]

I didn't mean to say that those games have HRFT, but they have some of the best stereo audio out there that feels real.

Stereo audio can never "feel real" because it's just a flat plane that the sound elements are being placed along. Speakers help due to the interaural time difference and natural room reverb, but headphones without binaural processing will just sound like sound is being played in one ear or the other.

Everything is going to be electronically simulated with crossfeed and reverb to create depth in front of you, but it can't create depth behind you.

This is misinformation. Please read this paper thoroughly to learn how convolution filters work with HRTF.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Hello, but I am not looking for the one that is more realistic in 7.1 or 5.1, that does not interest me. If not which one gave them a better sense of spatiality.

I'm addressing the part where you said they sound "artificial" precisely because 5.1 and 7.1 on headphones are exactly that...artificial. It's simulated.

You can get a wider or deeper image, or both, on some headphones and IEMs, but that's on music that's supposed to image a band or orchestra in front of you. Your video games will be an entirely different matter, and whether you use plain stereo, virtual surround, or even one of those headphones with several smaller drivers, imaging something behind you is still not going to be as clear as having speakers behind you.

Following that...I'm making sure you understand that there are limitations to this, like what I just laid out above, since your thread title has "360" in it. And the thing is from Razer software to soundcards to using a K701 on either of those I never got a very clear, far enough behind me aka 360 sound. I can play Total War and hear horses vaguely behind me getting louder and louder then the crunch of the impact when their lances hit the back of my generals' bodyguards' armor, or I can hear an engine vaguely behind me getting louder and louder, but neither will be a very clear "360" sound all around me. It's more like a 120 front visor and a short, vague brim along the remaining 240.

The FiiO FA1 gave me a great sense of incredible spatiality, although many here disagree ...

If that's good enough for you then there are a lot of options out there. Haven't listened to this one specifically so I can't pick out which one would be more expansive though.

This is misinformation. Please read this paper thoroughly to learn how convolution filters work with HRTF.

1. I was simplifying it for the OP.

2. Regardless, I still have not heard anything clearly coming from behind me yet. It can start soft and get louder, but it doesn't really sound like there are horses galloping in from 1000m behind me or an engine roaring in from behind me or that there's a guy that didn't mash the shift key or reloaded his rifle behind me, which was the main point.

 

[Galeonero]

I'm addressing the part where you said they sound "artificial" precisely because 5.1 and 7.1 on headphones are exactly that...artificial. It's simulated.

You can get a wider or deeper image, or both, on some headphones and IEMs, but that's on music that's supposed to image a band or orchestra in front of you. Your video games will be an entirely different matter, and whether you use plain stereo, virtual surround, or even one of those headphones with several smaller drivers, imaging something behind you is still not going to be as clear as having speakers behind you.

Following that...I'm making sure you understand that there are limitations to this, like what I just laid out above, since your thread title has "360" in it. And the thing is from Razer software to soundcards to using a K701 on either of those I never got a very clear, far enough behind me aka 360 sound. I can play Total War and hear horses vaguely behind me getting louder and louder then the crunch of the impact when their lances hit the back of my generals' bodyguards' armor, or I can hear an engine vaguely behind me getting louder and louder, but neither will be a very clear "360" sound all around me. It's more like a 120 front visor and a short, vague brim along the remaining 240.




If that's good enough for you then there are a lot of options out there. Haven't listened to this one specifically so I can't pick out which one would be more expansive though.

Hi, I understand what you are saying but that was not my point. I fully understand that headphones cannot achieve 5.1 - 7.1 due to physical reasons.
The only thing I wanted to ask is which was the best headset that gave you a good immersive feeling when gaming, it doesn't matter if it's 5.1 or 7.1 or it's open or closed.

I was not talking about the technicality of sound that everyone commented ... to show that what I say is not like that ...
It was a post to tell about their experience.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Hi, I understand what you are saying but that was not my point. I fully understand that headphones cannot achieve 5.1 - 7.1 due to physical reasons.
The only thing I wanted to ask is which was the best headset that gave you a good immersive feeling when gaming, it doesn't matter if it's 5.1 or 7.1 or it's open or closed.

I was not talking about the technicality of sound that everyone commented ... to show that what I say is not like that ...
It was a post to tell about their experience.

HD800.

As long as you remember this isn't exactly going to be perfect as speakers, then that's as good as it goes.

 

[Congregator]

Hi, I understand what you are saying but that was not my point. I fully understand that headphones cannot achieve 5.1 - 7.1 due to physical reasons.
The only thing I wanted to ask is which was the best headset that gave you a good immersive feeling when gaming, it doesn't matter if it's 5.1 or 7.1 or it's open or closed.

I was not talking about the technicality of sound that everyone commented ... to show that what I say is not like that ...
It was a post to tell about their experience.

Games using object-type audio, you dont need thinking about "immersive" for this. Open-back will be more 360 than closed-back. Sennheiser are very good for gaming, but 800/800s dont have an impact on low-end. Can you say please your budget?