[sirnice]

What do you guys think has better sound quality out of these 2 sources?
The Line-out on the iPod (4g) or the Headphone-out on the Cowon X5?
I know the headphone out on the iPod is not as good as the X5 but haven't tested the Line-out because I don't have the adaptor.

EDIT: Reason I like the X5 headphone out better is because the overall sound is much fuller: Deeper more impactful bass, mids are about equal(maybe a little better on the iPod) but the highs on the X5 has more clarity than the iPod's. The X5 headphone out has a lot more synergy with my E4c than the iPod. A LOT MORE!!!!

I would like to hear your opinion if you've heard both.

Thank you

 

[blessingx]

I haven't heard the X5, but it's kinda trick question no? Since you feel the iPods headphone out is clearly inferior, without further explanation you're almost asking which is more X5-like, the X5 or iPod with line-out (inserting the other big variable/blank X amp there).

Maybe if you said what it was about the X5 headphone out you found superior to the iPods others could state if the iPods line-out and various amps correct on that or even improves.

 

[bangraman]

iPod LO. Presuming you will be using it as a Line Out.

 

[TenaciousO]

I went from the X5 to the ipod lineout via sik din to pav2, and I felt there was more of an audible difference b/n the X5 hp out vs. ipod hp out than the ipod hp out vs. the ipod lineout. I know I'll probably be crucified by lots of ipod folks here, but I am 99.999% certain that there isn't any difference b/n the ipod hp and ipod lineout and that any difference you do hear is 100% attributable to the headphone amp that you are using.

You sound just like me from a few weeks ago. I thought the X5 sounded pretty decent overall despite its attenuated midrange, but I wanted the best in portable sound. I had read countless threads praising the lineout of the ipod and some even saying that it is superior to the lineout of the njb3. However, when I finally connected the amp and sik din, I was very disappointed because the difference in sound was very small. I felt that the bass was slightly more prominent, and vocals were slightly smoother, albeit a little distant, but the overall change in sound was miniscule. I tried the setup with both the e2 and hd485 and reached similar results. This struck me as very strange since my first hd mp3 player was the njb3, and there was a very noticeable difference b/n the hp out and the lineout. Since the difference I was hearing was so small, I got the hunch that the minor difference I heard was due solely to the characteristics of the amp and not because of any supposed difference in quality b/n the lineout and hp out. I hooked up the amp directly to the hp out and confirmed my suspicions: the hp out and lineout sound exactly the same when amped. Doing a search on this site has corroborated my findings. Do a search for the ipod amp "simpl a1" and read what the designer of that amp had to say about why they designed their amp to run from the hp out instead of the lineout.

So the short of it is whether you like the sound signature of the X5 or ipod hp out more. I say that if you really think the X5 is much more superior to the ipod hp out, then just stick with the X5. On the contrary, if you like the ipod sound better, save yourself $30, forget trying to get a lineout, and just amp the hp out with the player at 80% full volume. However, I should warn you that the difference in sound b/n amped and unamped ipod is very small if you plan on using an amp less than $100 and imo isn't worth it. I'm sure that there will be legions of people here who will try to present data/graphs from tests done on their computers and whatnot, but I really don't care about that. Your ears are the #1 judge.

Additional comment: I should note that I had already used mp3gain to change the gain on my mp3s to 89db and then used eupod to up the volume playback by 40%. Not sure if this makes much of a difference, but I thought it was important to note because some people have experienced clipping without mp3gain being applied. If that is the case, there might be a difference b/n the hp out at ~80% full volume and the ipod lineout without mp3gain/eupod. Maybe.

 

[roy_jones]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TenaciousO I went from the X5 to the ipod lineout via sik din to pav2, and I felt there was more of an audible difference b/n the X5 hp out vs. ipod hp out than the ipod hp out vs. the ipod lineout. I know I'll probably be crucified by lots of ipod folks here, but I am 99.999% certain that there isn't any difference b/n the ipod hp and ipod lineout and that any difference you do hear is 100% attributable to the headphone amp that you are using. You sound just like me from a few weeks ago. I thought the X5 sounded pretty decent overall despite its attenuated midrange, but I wanted the best in portable sound. I had read countless threads praising the lineout of the ipod and some even saying that it is superior to the lineout of the njb3. However, when I finally connected the amp and sik din, I was very disappointed because the difference in sound was very small. I felt that the bass was slightly more prominent, and vocals were slightly smoother, albeit a little distant, but the overall change in sound was miniscule. I tried the setup with both the e2 and hd485 and reached similar results. This struck me as very strange since my first hd mp3 player was the njb3, and there was a very noticeable difference b/n the hp out and the lineout. Since the difference I was hearing was so small, I got the hunch that the minor difference I heard was due solely to the characteristics of the amp and not because of any supposed difference in quality b/n the lineout and hp out. I hooked up the amp directly to the hp out and confirmed my suspicions: the hp out and lineout sound exactly the same when amped. Doing a search on this site has corroborated my findings. Do a search for the ipod amp "simpl a1" and read what the designer of that amp had to say about why they designed their amp to run from the hp out instead of the lineout. So the short of it is whether you like the sound signature of the X5 or ipod hp out more. I say that if you really think the X5 is much more superior to the ipod hp out, then just stick with the X5. On the contrary, if you like the ipod sound better, save yourself $30, forget trying to get a lineout, and just amp the hp out with the player at 80% full volume. However, I should warn you that the difference in sound b/n amped and unamped ipod is very small if you plan on using an amp less than $100 and imo isn't worth it. I'm sure that there will be legions of people here who will try to present data/graphs from tests done on their computers and whatnot, but I really don't care about that. Your ears are the #1 judge.

Extremely informative post. I've been waiting on something like this for a fairly long while now- so thanks. I realize while saying that, that you're talking about your own experience, so I'm not meaning to represent that you intended it under any other context.

I've been on the fence for a month or so about what I was going to do for a portable. I was sold on the X5, but then was skeptical after hearing reports of a poor line-out for the M3/X5's. I've invested in a Porta Corda mkII, and although it wasn't hugely expensive or anything- I was hoping that whatever portable source I decided on would mesh well with that amp.

Based on the reviews praising the Ipod's line-out, I was leaning closer to going with another Ipod, and just getting the Sik Din. I've tried amping out of the headphone jack of the Ipod, and I have a difficult time discerning the 'amped' vs. 'unamped' sound from each other. Granted, I'm not an audiophile per se, but I am reasonably sensitive to differences in sound.

I ended up getting quite a deal on an X5- $250 US for a 30GB X5 with two different cases...so that was too good to turn down. I'm thinking that maybe I'll sell the Porta Corda, because the headphone jack seems to be the best way to go with the X5. Does anyone else have experience with the X5's headphone out vs. the line-out?

Bangraman, I've appreciated your commentary on these subjects greatly during my research- what's your feeling on this? I really wanted to like the Porta Corda, but there needs to be an appreciable improvement with it, to make the added bulk of carrying it worth it, and if the line-out of the X5 is not a marked improvement over the HP, than what's the point?

 

[bangraman]

If you search back, you'll find some tests I did between switching the line out and headphone out with a line level load, and even a 300 ohm load. I believe I came to the same conclusion as TenaciousO if I've skimmed his post properly. I don't think the componentry to match the iPod's audio stage to a headphone affects the ability of the headphone socket to be used as an alternative line-out to a truly significant degree (but you do have to match the headphone volume to act as an LO... I believe it's about 90% volume). The thing is that either way, the iPod is one of the better sources in production these days with a higher-z load... it seems the higher the better. It does however seem to be definitely not one of the best sources as far as low impedance load is concerned. If you're amping, it won't be an issue. The advantage of amping the Line Out is not just peace of mind but it's also practical: You can still use the remote (not for volume, but for the transport controls).


Simply put, I believe that with a line level load and provided you're not specifically looking to apply FX through LO, the iPod 's sound is cleaner than the X5's. The X5 has that rather bizarre falloff with a line level load out of the subpack (can anyone explain that, I'm not sure why that would have been engineered in), and while I don't think that undermines the underlying pretty decent sound quality achievable from the X5 it's definitely rather odd.

 

[mkeroppi]

READ: Line out is for amp loads, Headphone out is for headphones...

That being said, iPod's Headphone out is crippled. Headphone out means the output stage provides a current amplifier so that there's enough for ANY reasonable loads (this means all low impedence phones, and low impedence means any phones that can reasonably be played with enough volume [up to 300ohms depends on who you ask]).

Line out means signal is at line level (whatever that might be, but probably -10dBu). The output stage may or may not supply enough current to any load, as amplifers have input impedence of ~1M ohms or greater, which can be practically seens by the player as NO current load).

These being said, any attempts to use these for different purpose than they are meant for are ill-informed and you will not get the correct result.

Again, Ipod's Headphone Out is CRIPPLED without the buffer stage (probably in an attempt to save battery life).

After understand these, I'd be interested in anyone who could RMAA either line outs to see if one's truly better than the other.

 

[sirnice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessingx I haven't heard the X5, but it's kinda trick question no? Since you feel the iPods headphone out is clearly inferior, without further explanation you're almost asking which is more X5-like, the X5 or iPod with line-out (inserting the other big variable/blank X amp there). Maybe if you said what it was about the X5 headphone out you found superior to the iPods others could state if the iPods line-out and various amps correct on that or even improves.

I have edited my original post with why I think the X5 headphone out is better than the iPod's.

 

[sirnice]

My portaphile V2^2 is coming next week. i'm going to test the HP out and L-out of the iPod as well as the L-out of the iPod vs and HP out of the x5.

I'll report back which I prefer.

thanks for all the inputs.