Which Hard Drive Players have a REAL Line-out?
Mar 26, 2004 at 4:36 PM Post #2 of 12
I think cheat is a bit of an understatement. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a line out bypass the amp totally ? If so, then wouldn't it be true that you'd get practically no volume or none at all ? The Creative Nomad Jukebox 3 has 2 line outs on it. And I'm pretty sure they're real.
 
Mar 26, 2004 at 4:49 PM Post #4 of 12
Quote:

Originally posted by Sweet Spot
I think cheat is a bit of an understatement. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a line out bypass the amp totally ? If so, then wouldn't it be true that you'd get practically no volume or none at all ? The Creative Nomad Jukebox 3 has 2 line outs on it. And I'm pretty sure they're real.


As I understand it, the signal _has_ to be amped at some point in the the DAC else it wouldn't have ANY power output, not even for a line out. So, there is a multiple stage amplification going on inside any audio player. I'm not sure if there is a 2nd high-gain amp for headphone output, where the signal could be routed around it to a line-output.... or if the high gain section is at the DAC point, and the headphone output is just attenuation of this signal and the line-output avoids the attenuator.

well, i don't know I'm talking about, but I'd like to figure it out. It makes sense that a line-out should have a constant output level not affected by volume controls. and that it shouldn't share the same output port with the headphone out.

Some players have an option to make the headphone-out jack into a line-out in the settings menu... but I think this just sets the volume at a constant level, disables volume control, and simulates a real line-output. Gatway and e.Digital's player had this... and they even advertised them as having Line-Out.
mad.gif
 
Mar 26, 2004 at 8:48 PM Post #6 of 12
Quote:

As I understand it, the signal _has_ to be amped at some point in the the DAC else it wouldn't have ANY power output, not even for a line out. So, there is a multiple stage amplification going on inside any audio player. I'm not sure if there is a 2nd high-gain amp for headphone output, where the signal could be routed around it to a line-output.... or if the high gain section is at the DAC point, and the headphone output is just attenuation of this signal and the line-output avoids the attenuator.

well, i don't know I'm talking about, but I'd like to figure it out. It makes sense that a line-out should have a constant output level not affected by volume controls. and that it shouldn't share the same output port with the headphone out.

Some players have an option to make the headphone-out jack into a line-out in the settings menu... but I think this just sets the volume at a constant level, disables volume control, and simulates a real line-output. Gatway and e.Digital's player had this... and they even advertised them as having Line-Out.


I'd really love to get the down low on all of this. I'm trying to do an amp/line out /headphone out FAQ on the Mistic River forums. From what I've gathered so far in bits and pieces from different sources, the IHP's line out has a higher impedance load compared to the HP out. Supposedly, the HP out has AT LEAST one capicitor on the hp line, which is what curbs the voltage or somethin' like that. So if the amp is supplying power to both the "line out" and the HP out, the power is not being distributed evenly (because of the capicitor(s) )

There's more to it obviously, but I figure it's a start, assuming that the information is valid. If it is, then I can proceed with all the other info I have, which would only make sense in this particular scenario.
 
Mar 26, 2004 at 11:07 PM Post #7 of 12
Quote:

Originally posted by austonia
Absolutely.

Nomad Jukebox 3.

Some archos models had/have line-outputs but I can't vouch for thier authenticity.


Really? So...question: When i plugged in my altoids into one of the line outs and hit the eac button (to toggle eq and turn it off) it affected the line out's sound output.

I always thought a line out was not affected any eq on the player.
 
Mar 26, 2004 at 11:21 PM Post #8 of 12
I bought the iHP 120 based on the fact that it had a line out. It's a great player, but ironically the line out seems to have more power than the headphone jack. The sound is better out of the line out, though.
 
Mar 27, 2004 at 6:02 AM Post #9 of 12
The iPod and miniPod technically have line-outs without a dock if you buy a Sik Imp/Din cable. I use this with my portable amps and the sound quality is quite good. Changing EQ settings (although I never use them) does alter the output, but I believe this is the same digital modification to the sound that the others had previously mentioned -- the line-out does bypass the internal iPod amplification.
 
Mar 27, 2004 at 6:08 AM Post #10 of 12
Quote:

Originally posted by roll-man
I bought the iHP 120 based on the fact that it had a line out. It's a great player, but ironically the line out seems to have more power than the headphone jack. The sound is better out of the line out, though.


Until this is proven, i'd not say the iHP has a lineout, because as posted in the other thread, when i tried the Line Out trick, the EQ still affects the sound....
 
Mar 27, 2004 at 7:21 AM Post #11 of 12
Man, all of this talk is frustrating. I'm tired of people claiming to know what the answers are, when their only proof is fancy words and pictures of amps, DSP stages and signal paths. Seems to hardly make any sense unless we know a few basic things such as:

What is considered by the experts in the audio world, and not some DIY audio geeks (no offense, I'd gladly wear that title) to be the meaning of a line out. What does the term encompass, and what are the hacks that can make one "fake" ?

Till I know that, I consider everything to be heresy.

Quote:

The iPod and miniPod technically have line-outs without a dock if you buy a Sik Imp/Din cable. the line-out does bypass the internal iPod amplification.


This confuses me. What about the cable enables it to bypass the line out ? Wouldn't the signal have to be traveling on a different path all together in order to bypass the line out ? Since the DSP stuff is still being processed, and making it through to the final stage, it would seem that this is not the case, but I dunno.

Now, the question I have being an IHP owner is, if the IHP's op amp is what's shaping the sound characteristics (warm, bright etc..) then by all means if the "line out" is real, then using an external amp and having the IHP up to 40 (as people have claimed to be the way to a real line out) would enable the external amps op amp section to take over in that dept, thus the IHP's overall sound characteristics would be totally different right ? Somehow, I don't see this happening with the iHP though.

Another question. If a port is to be considered a "real" line out, to what extent is it being powered by the internal amplifier ? Is it just the op-amp which is bypassed ? Or does it depend on the configuration, meaning that there's more than one way to skin a real line out ? Can someone with a NJB3 please plug some high and low impedance cans into the line out and tell me what the results are ? I'm just curious. (Wish I still had mine now)

Blah.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back
Top