[dewulf]

Hi guys (& girls?),

I'm looking for some IEM's with a really flat frequency response. I will mostly use them to do rough mixes of electronica music projects during overseas flights and therefore I don't need/want any makeup on bass or high's.
Any recommendations? Price isn't the most important, but (of course) it wouldn't matter if they are not too pricey (like ue11 or jh13).

Thanks in advance & greets from bkk

wulf

 

[Andrew H]

Mixing on airplanes? Have to say it kind of reminds me of those old commercials (no idea what the product was) of the guy sitting in the back of a car, cutting a diamond while they drove down a cobblestone street.

I'd never had much luck with trying to mix with full-size headphones in a quiet room. But it's probably largely a matter of being so used to the sound of one's speakers. After all, consider how much great work has been done on the god-awful NS-10. It's not that anybody liked them, but everybody knew them. So on that basis, perhaps headphones, even IEMs, can work.

The other thing is that, doesn't flying seem to cause a lot of weird pressure things going on in the ears? You're cruising along, then you yawn or swallow, some pressure is relieved, and suddenly your hearing seems to change.

Sorry that I can't make any specific product rec's, just intrigued by the whole idea of audio production in the sky. Actually probably one of the most qualified people to answer this would be Jerry Harvey himself, considering (a) he's a pilot, (b) he's a veteran pro sound engineer, and (c) along with the world's best IEMs, he also makes aviation headsets.

 

[dewulf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew H /img/forum/go_quote.gif Mixing on airplanes? Have to say it kind of reminds me of those old commercials (no idea what the product was) of the guy sitting in the back of a car, cutting a diamond while they drove down a cobblestone street. I'd never had much luck with trying to mix with full-size headphones in a quiet room. But it's probably largely a matter of being so used to the sound of one's speakers. After all, consider how much great work has been done on the god-awful NS-10. It's not that anybody liked them, but everybody knew them. So on that basis, perhaps headphones, even IEMs, can work. The other thing is that, doesn't flying seem to cause a lot of weird pressure things going on in the ears? You're cruising along, then you yawn or swallow, some pressure is relieved, and suddenly your hearing seems to change. Sorry that I can't make any specific product rec's, just intrigued by the whole idea of audio production in the sky. Actually probably one of the most qualified people to answer this would be Jerry Harvey himself, considering (a) he's a pilot, (b) he's a veteran pro sound engineer, and (c) along with the world's best IEMs, he also makes aviation headsets.

Thanks for your point of view. Well, all I'm trying to do is some rough mixing. Of course, I won't finish a mixdown of a 64 tracks project, but what I want is to get not too surprised after coming back to studio and have a listen thru studio monitors.
How to contact Jerry Harvey? Is he around here on the board or shall I try it thru jhaudio website?

Thanks

wulf

 

[barleyguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dewulf /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi guys (& girls?), I'm looking for some IEM's with a really flat frequency response. I will mostly use them to do rough mixes of electronica music projects during overseas flights and therefore I don't need/want any makeup on bass or high's. Any recommendations? Price isn't the most important, but (of course) it wouldn't matter if they are not too pricey (like ue11 or jh13). Thanks in advance & greets from bkk wulf

I'd probably talk to both JHAudio and Westone. They are both competent and make great customs.

One thing though - because the response of the ear depends on the pinna (outer ear), IEM's are made to replicate a theoretical response curve of the inner ear. So they are not flat, nor are they supposed to be. A flat IEM would sound terrible, because the outer ear naturally changes the response curve that you hear in the inner ear.

Not particularly relevant to the answer, but the only "flat" headphones you would want are over the ear full size cans, not in ear customs. But with in ear customs, if you send an impression of your inner and outer ear, they should be able to create something that replicates your natural frequency response.

The short version of what I'm trying to say: What you really want is "flat minus the effect of the outer ear" not "flat".

 

[dewulf]

@barleyguy

ok, then I want flat minus the effect of the outer ear

 

[Bilavideo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dewulf /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi guys (& girls?), I'm looking for some IEM's with a really flat frequency response. I will mostly use them to do rough mixes of electronica music projects during overseas flights and therefore I don't need/want any makeup on bass or high's. Any recommendations? Price isn't the most important, but (of course) it wouldn't matter if they are not too pricey (like ue11 or jh13). Thanks in advance & greets from bkk wulf

While you're at it, why don't you cut some diamonds while skydiving?

 

[Andrew H]

dewulf, Ok, my suggestion is to start with ER-4P. Or if using an external dac+amp (we're talking laptop audio, right?) then 4S should be slightly better (although I've not tried them personally), given similar pricing.

Reasoning is that they've got as good of isolation as anything for a universal (maybe just a little short of customs), have very good accuracy/detail, and are relatively wallet friendly. Just try them out for several days first, and see how they compare to what you're used to. Then if they don't work out, you can always sell/return them easily enough and move up to something higher.

I wouldn't suggest starting from anything lower than ER-4. Of course going higher may deliver more enjoyable audio, but it also may be more and/or different than what's needed for the given task. Again, tons of great records have been made with NS-10s. But I doubt too many engineers ever used them for their home stereos.

 

[ephemere]

You might want to read this. It's written by a guy who has mixed from headphones for several years and ended up with a custom monitor.

 

[qusp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by barleyguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'd probably talk to both JHAudio and Westone. They are both competent and make great customs. One thing though - because the response of the ear depends on the pinna (outer ear), IEM's are made to replicate a theoretical response curve of the inner ear. So they are not flat, nor are they supposed to be. A flat IEM would sound terrible, because the outer ear naturally changes the response curve that you hear in the inner ear. Not particularly relevant to the answer, but the only "flat" headphones you would want are over the ear full size cans, not in ear customs. But with in ear customs, if you send an impression of your inner and outer ear, they should be able to create something that replicates your natural frequency response. The short version of what I'm trying to say: What you really want is "flat minus the effect of the outer ear" not "flat".

yes; what he wants is what is called 'ear flat' taking the ear into account and then of course literally taking the canal out of the equation all together; which is more than I can say for fullsize headphones

Quote:

dewulf, Ok, my suggestion is to start with ER-4P. Or if using an external dac+amp (we're talking laptop audio, right?) then 4S should be slightly better (although I've not tried them personally), given similar pricing. Reasoning is that they've got as good of isolation as anything for a universal (maybe just a little short of customs), have very good accuracy/detail, and are relatively wallet friendly. Just try them out for several days first, and see how they compare to what you're used to. Then if they don't work out, you can always sell/return them easily enough and move up to something higher. I wouldn't suggest starting from anything lower than ER-4. Of course going higher may deliver more enjoyable audio, but it also may be more and/or different than what's needed for the given task. Again, tons of great records have been made with NS-10s. But I doubt too many engineers ever used them for their home stereos.

wow; interesting point of view there; IMO stay well away from ER4 for mixing, youll end up with a heap of bass heavy mixes, because you'll adjust for the total lack of real bass and end up with too much on any system that happens to have a real frequency response