[big_lou]

If you can assume, for a moment, that you could audition any and all DAP’s and also any and all phones, and also assuming SQ as the only criterion, which would you buy first, the player or the headphones?

Or do we have a “chicken-and-the-egg” situation here? In other words, do headphone characteristics influence the player’s SQ more than a player’s signature can influence how a particular headphone sounds? Or is it the other way around? Is this just a vicious circle?

To me it makes more sense to settle on the player first because there seems to be a lot less variation in player SQ than with headphones. Not to mention that there would be fewer “decent” players to pick from (Kenwood, Sony, iMod) but there seems to be many more “good” (and also bad) phones.

I think that, in the end, the headphones will make the most difference to the overall SQ but I am not trying to decide between getting a player or headphones but rather which one to get first. Once I settle on the best possible source (player) then I will have to deal with, perhaps, buying/returning from my top-10 list of phones until I find a good match.

Is this “logic” reasonable?

BTW, I am mot posing this question just out of curiosity but rather am actually in need of, both, the best player and the best phones to get the most SQ. I have lurked in these forums long enough to know which players and phones I would consider (so far) and although I will not be able to audition players or phones at will I am hoping to apply the same logic and just go by other people’s reviews and opinions of the hardware.

I hope this makes sense.

TIA

 

[dissembled]

PLAYER, playah. You can spend $200 on a pair of phones and have it crippled by an inferior DAP amp.

You want to get the best source available to ensure you're getting the max performance of every can in your inventory.

EDIT:
I'll add a real world example. My Vision M IMO cripples my phones. Its midrange is grainy, dry sounding. Not to mention that it's slightly veiled and has a compact soundstage. When my phones are plugged into a better sounding source however (ie computer), the dryness is gone and both clarity and soundstage increases. It's pretty obvious that I'm not getting the most from my phones with my DAP at the moment. The SOURCE to me, is the more important factor.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Why would you buy them separately? After all, you can't use one without the other. Headphones are more important because they will scale as you upgrade players. The best sources in the world will sound horrible with cheap headphones.

You'll probably end up using your headphones in better systems eventually, but putting all of your money into purchasing a portable source will limit you to using that source until you buy something else.

So in both cases, choose wisely.

 

[big_lou]

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinitesymphony /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why would you buy them separately? After all, you can't use one without the other.

I edited my OP so maybe this answers your question:

Once I settle on the best possible source (player) then I will have to deal with, perhaps, buying/returning from my top-10 list of phones until I find a good match.


Quote:

Headphones are more important because they will scale as you upgrade players.

I assume you mean that good headphones will sound better as I upgrade players? If so, isn't the oppossite true also? A good source can deliver more of its potential with better phones.

Quote:

The best sources in the world will sound horrible with cheap headphones.

Sure, but hopefully I would never get really bad phones. At worst I would start from the bottom of my top-10 list.

Quote:

You'll probably end up using your headphones in better systems eventually, .

or use my player with better phones?

Quote:

but putting all of your money into purchasing a portable source will limit you to using that source until you buy something else..

well, just half my money for the source the other half for the phones. I would not skimp on something that I would use every day (I'm loaded!....not really). Would rather cut back on non-essentials (food, shelter, ...)

Quote:

So in both cases, choose wisely.

I will, with your help... Thanks for the replies!!

 

[dissembled]

Also realize that portability and home usage are quite 'separate'. Higher end headphones require better amplification. Meaning that the headphones you'll use with portables will be vastly different from the more expensive ones you'll mate with home amps.

 

[UNESCO]

personal choice for me would be the player as you can't listen to portable music without one (no matter how horrible the OEM buds may be!) and to have completely good headphones not able to play anything sorta defeats the purpose

Personally, I see DAPs as more quickly evolving than a good pair of headphones; something I'm willing to replace more frequently as technology, storage, size, and capacity increase whereas. My Ety's won't be obsolete nearly as quickly as my Sansa e280.

 

[big_lou]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissembled /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also realize that portability and home usage are quite 'separate'. Higher end headphones require better amplification. Meaning that the headphones you'll use with portables will be vastly different from the more expensive ones you'll mate with home amps.

Can people still afford both? Those were the good old days when I could afford (I thought) "high-end" gear (Linn-Sondek LP12 table, Mark Levinson amps, Acoustat-X speakers, Stax phones, ..., and a myriad of other mismatched equipment). Now I don't have the room or cash for higher-end anything ! Nor do I want to spend all my time "listening" to cables, connectors, or to the orientation of the power plug in the wall socket.

Now that I am in my late 40's (i.e 52) I think I'd rather stick to high quality portables anyway, even if I could afford high end gear for home (i.e. couch potato) use.

 

[dissembled]

Quote:

Originally Posted by big_lou /img/forum/go_quote.gif Now that I am in my late 40's (i.e 52) I think I'd rather stick to high quality portables anyway, even if I could afford high end gear for home (i.e. couch potato) use.

I've realized that using an unamped portable as a main source is quite limiting (obviously

). The only way to listen to the better phones would be amping the player which definately decreases portability. ( I still plan to listen to a 250ohm DT880 through a Supermicro with a portable as my source though. Insane and contradictory as that may sound. HAHA.

)

 

[infinitesymphony]

I guess my thought was that you'd probably end up replacing the source before you would replace the headphones. As others have mentioned, DAPs are ever-evolving and still not as good as home equipment. Also, you'll need some sort of decent amplification to drive many headphones to their full potential.

Basically... If sound quality is your first priority, portable is probably not the way to go. If portability is your preference, then you'll have to accept a slight dip in sound quality (in general). You'll need to find a pair of easily-driven headphones to match with the sound signature of the player you choose.

 

[big_lou]

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNESCO /img/forum/go_quote.gif personal choice for me would be the player as you can't listen to portable music without one (no matter how horrible the OEM buds may be!) and to have completely good headphones not able to play anything sorta defeats the purpose Personally, I see DAPs as more quickly evolving than a good pair of headphones; something I'm willing to replace more frequently as technology, storage, size, and capacity increase whereas. My Ety's won't be obsolete nearly as quickly as my Sansa e280.

Actually, to clarify, I was trying to decide between buying the best possible player first then start buying phones from my top-10 (or top-20) list starting from least expensive and moving up to most expensive. Then if I don't like how #10 sounds with the player then I would exchange it, if possible, for the next more expensive on the list, and so on until I find the magic combination, OR reverse the process and get the best phone first and start buying/exchanging players. Maybe either approach is unrealistic (?)

The problem is that, I think, it would be easier to find the best player (fewer choices, less variation in SQ) than it would be to find the best phone (much more personal choice, many more decent choices, more different designs, ,...).

 

[infinitesymphony]

Quote:

Originally Posted by big_lou /img/forum/go_quote.gif The problem is that, I think, it would be easier to find the best player (fewer choices, less variation in SQ) than it would be to find the best phone (much more personal choice, many more decemt choices, more different designs, ,...).

I think that's true... Most DAPs will have sound quality comparable to each other, while you'll find a ton of variation among headphones. So in your case, buying the source first is probably a good idea since it shouldn't take much time or debate.

 

[tk3]

IMO the biggest step comes from going from stock buds to decent headphones (~100-200 USD range, or higher), so I would work on that first.
It's also cheaper than shelfing out the money for a top class DAP from the go. (imod + amp, kenwood player, etc)

 

[Quaddy]

in this case i would start with the player, then all add-ons can follow. cause i like to have something to accessorise around. the at least you arent taunting yourself on a daily basis by having all these juicy add ons and no source to test em on!!!

 

[dissembled]

Quote:

Originally Posted by big_lou /img/forum/go_quote.gif The problem is that, I think, it would be easier to find the best player (fewer choices, less variation in SQ) than it would be to find the best phone (much more personal choice, many more decent choices, more different designs, ,...).

Doesn't that contradict your own point though? If the SQ of DAPS does not vary, why would you spend hundreds on a DAP with marginally better SQ?

Personally, I've found that the 4 mp3 players I've tested in the past are quite distinct from each other. Though yes, I think that there's more variation in the audio signature of DAPs than the sound quality, itself.

 

[no1likesme]

Find a good DAP first.