[stymie miasma]

It's funny how threads appear dealing with the very topics you had been mulling over in recent days. In a similar fashion to the recent, and very interesting thread What are the most 'analog' sounding CD players? , I thought I might start a similar discussion. Specifically, if I wanted to introduce tubes to my system, where would be the best place to do so??

So far, since arriving in Philadelphia, I have managed tp patch together a semi-respectible system. An NAD C740 receiver and some PSB Image 2B speakers. As a source, I am using a Panasonic DVD player that my old housemates sold me for very cheap before they went back to Australia a couple of weeks ago. Once my finances allow me, I would like to put the DVD player aside for actually playing DVDs, and invest in a dedicated redbook player, whilst also maintaining a budget of sorts.

My specific aims are to introduce a bit more warmth and musicality, which I feel my system presently lacks. For vocals, I find my system is a little lean or recessed, so perhaps something that pushes the mids forward a wee-bit. Also, on some albums (for example, Coletrane), trumpets can be a bit on the harsh side, and cymbals can get a little grainy. I suspect the PSB metal-dome tweeters might play a role in this, but I am sure the poor source is equally guilty. That said, I do like the PSBs, particularly their versitility and lively presentation. So far, I am considering the following options:

(a) Jolida JD100 or a Njoe Tjoeb as a source.

(b) NAD C541i as a source, and then putting the money I save on (a) towards the new MAD Ear++ to use as both a preamp for the NAD C740, as well as a headphone amp (which presently I lack).

Keep in mind the following: I probably spend as much time listening to headphones as I do speakers. My headphones are Grado SR60s, but I suspect an upgrado to SR225s later in the year

So fellow Head Fiers, if you were in my shoes (God forbid!), where would you throw your hard-earned dollars? Please feel free to critique my options if they appear not to address the specific aims. In particular, I am not 100% sure if the MAD Ear++ will work with the NAD C740 as a preamp.

Thanks in advance

 

[TimSchirmer]

Get the MAD EAR ++ and buy a turntable

 

[stymie miasma]

Quote:

Originally posted by TimSchirmer Get the MAD EAR ++ and buy a turntable

A great idea in principle, but I fear a turntable would do a lousy job of playing my CDs

On a more serious note, I fully intend to invest in a quality turntable when I return to Australia in a few years, or at least when i get settled down. I left behind an old Yamaha turntable, which depsite its poor condition, conveyed a certain 'depth' and 'palpability' to music that my CD player (Onkyo) could not touch.

For the time being though, I am living in the digital domain

 

[stymie miasma]

Meep!

 

[screwdriver]

Quote:

Originally posted by stymie miasma A great idea in principle, but I fear a turntable would do a lousy job of playing my CDs

LOL.

 

[Calanctus]

The MAD Ear++ option sounds promising. A lot of people believe that one of the best ways to introduce tubes is in the preamp. I just did so myself. (I'm still evaluating the effects (it takes me days to suss out all the changes and how I feel about them).) A tube preamp will burn through fewer tubes than a tube (speaker) amp. Plus the versatility of the product you mention is attractive.

 

[kuma]

I started out with a tubed CD player. They use small signal tubes which are easy to replace and no change, really in day to day oepration from solid state. They do not get hot like tubed amplifiers.

To be honest, I really didn't want to get involve in this tube thing, but, I was frustrated by what was then, available in CD players within my price range. The tube player gave immediacy and presence the system needed. Not all tube players are warm but you can easily change the tubes inside and shift a tonal balance if needed.

so, I'd recommend your option (a)

When you get into tube/solid state separates or even tube/tube combo you just never know how they work together. Get your feet wet from an easy maintenance source end and see how you like it.

 

[stymie miasma]

Quote:

Originally posted by Calanctus The MAD Ear++ option sounds promising. A lot of people believe that one of the best ways to introduce tubes is in the preamp. I just did so myself. (I'm still evaluating the effects (it takes me days to suss out all the changes and how I feel about them).) A tube preamp will burn through fewer tubes than a tube (speaker) amp. Plus the versatility of the product you mention is attractive.

Thanks for your thoughts Calanctus

What are the details of your new preamp? I'd be keen to hear how you feel about your new system once it has settled in.

 

[stymie miasma]

Quote:

Originally posted by kuma The tube player gave immediacy and presence the system needed. Not all tube players are warm but you can easily change the tubes inside and shift a tonal balance if needed. so, I'd recommend your option (a) When you get into tube/solid state separates or even tube/tube combo you just never know how they work together. Get your feet wet from an easy maintenance source end and see how you like it.

I like the sound of that "The tube player gave immediacy and presence the system needed"!!

*Droool*

You raise a good point regarding synergy...I believe Wodgey was using a MAD Line 2m with his NAD amp - hopefully he will chime in here with his experiences.

In my mind at least, the tubed source is the most straightforward way to proceed, but I am a little concerned about reliability issues mentioned here re: Jolida. On the contrary, everything I have read about MAD has been extremely postive.

Aside from issues of synergy and reliability, would the tubed source or the tubed preamp be expected to have a greater effect on the overall 'sound' of my system?

Cheers guys!

 

[kuma]

Quote:

Originally posted by stymie miasma Aside from issues of synergy and reliability, would the tubed source or the tubed preamp be expected to have a greater effect on the overall 'sound' of my system?

Hard to say, I say.

But, a good tubed preamp with low noise floor needed for a 'phone listening is hard to come by.
If you do decided to take the separte route, be sure preamp's output impedance and amp's imput impedance are agreeable.

 

[BDA_ABAT]

MAD Ear+(+) might be a good option. Can be used as a headamp or a pre-amp. That way, you can decide where it best fits into your rig. It's also not an outrageously priced product.... < $500 for the assembled ++ (including upgraded Black Caps and Alps attenuator!).

Plus, there's a certain magic that occurs with the Ear+ and Grado cans.

BTW: I have NOT heard the Ear++. But the amp circuit is exactly the same as the Ear+ which I own and enjoy a great deal. The tubes have added some warmth and life to Ety ER4S. The difference between the ++ model and the + are the additional pre-amp capabilities. Specifically... (from the MAD website) Quote:

Buffer stages are provided on the line outputs (using a 12BH7A dual triode) giving an output impedance of less than 500 Ohms for driving cable capacitance and power amp load without high frequency loss or reduction in overall gain for headphone listening. A source selector switch for three line inputs is provided along with the volume control on the front panel.

And FYI: Dr. Peppard is a pleasure to deal with.

Good luck!
Bruce

 

[arnaud]

Quote:

Originally posted by stymie miasma My specific aims are to introduce a bit more warmth and musicality, which I feel my system presently lacks. For vocals, I find my system is a little lean or recessed, so perhaps something that pushes the mids forward a wee-bit. Also, on some albums (for example, Coletrane), trumpets can be a bit on the harsh side, and cymbals can get a little grainy.

stymie miasma,

What you describe here is EXACTLY what I was feeling with my system prior to getting the Jolida JD100A. After the 5751 tubes upgrade, I have rediscovered all my Jazz collection... Are you looking for this natural, palpable sound with tremendous soundstage, body and presence? I was, and I FOUND IT!

I don't know where you read about reliability problems with the JD100. I haven't seen a single complaint about it and have personnally enjoyed it without any regret since day 1.

I would also keep the tubes at the source and / or preamplification stage because you won't have to replace them every 6 months...

Arnaud.

 

[stymie miasma]

Hey guys!

This is all very helpful information. It seems whichever way I go, I can't go too wrong - well hopefully not anyway

I am leaning a little towards the MAD Ear++, assuming it will function well with the NAD C740. That way, I will gain a dedicated headphone amp. I guess the final choice will really come down to how the source performs. As I said earlier, if I go with the MAD Ear++, I will probably choose the NAD C541i. Although I have to say Arnaud, your experiences do make the decision a tough one!

Can anyone comment as to how the C541i fares/would be expected to fare against the Jolida JD100, keeping in mind the following

Quote:

If you don't have it to start with, you can never get it back - the rest of your system can only reveal what your source component does or doesn't do.

My guess is that either source will be more than adequate for my modest system, and that it will really come down to deciding between the characteristics of the Jolida tube output or the Ear++.

 

[BDA_ABAT]

I've not had the good fortune to hear either CDP. They both have numerous fans and sound like they should be excellent players.

Interesting, doing a quick check on pricing, the NAD541 looks like it's ~ half the cost of the Jolida.

RE: NAD: quick search revealed...this thread

If you're considering players close to the $400-500 range, might be worthwhile to look at the Philips 963SA. Great DVD player that happens to do a very nice job (to my ears anyway) with redbook and sacd. Others have been very positive about the Sony 222ES, some Rotel models have good reputations.

Also, if you're considering players in the $1000+ price range, might be worthwhile to check out Markl's review of SACDs modded Sony 555ES here

I believe you can find the player for ~ $700, and the price for mods is $600. Could get the player now, wait to assemble some cash for the mods later.

Good luck!
Bruce

 

[stymie miasma]

Hey Bruce,

Thanks again for your comments

Despite Philadelphia being a bit of a desert (as opposed to dessert

) with regards higher-end audio stores, I can audtion the NAD C541i and the new range of Rotel players without consulting a travel-agent

I think my local Tweeter may also carry the Philips. Sadly, the Jolida is a little harder to track down in these parts.

As you alluded to, many people - including Mr. Jude - have commented favourably on the C541i, and it appears to compete very favourably with many player in and above its price range. Given that the Jolida would set me back about $700 (used), I can probably buy the NAD for around $400 new, and then put the money I save towards the Ear++ a bit further down the track.

I might PM Wodgey to hear of his experiences running the Ear Line 2m through his NAD intergrated amplifier - at least I think that was how he had it set-up