[GGould]

Where is chinese clone of β22?
According to the official site of The β22 Stereo Amplifier for beta 22, there is a clone offered from china.

I am highly interested in it.

 

[pekingduck]

I am aware of one vendor that sells complete B22 but I am not sure if this is the one AMB is talking about.

Here and here

The same vendor also sells PCB boards and other components for the B22

 

[GGould]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pekingduck /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am aware of one vendor that sells complete B22 but I am not sure if this is the one AMB is talking about. Here and here The same vendor also sells PCB boards and other components for the B22

Thanks. I wonder if they produce 110V version for USA. It is really a nice option. In the comment, s22 is already included. So it is worth nearly $1000.

 

[tintin47]

So you read AMB's statement that the clone "Is made without permission and violates the terms of use set forth on (AMB's) website", and observed that the amp design is copyrighted by AMB, and then decided to get one? In order to save a few bucks?

You are taking advantage of the time and energy that Ti and by extension all of the fabulously talented DIY designers put into building this community. I would encourage you to think about what you are doing and just save up some extra money for the real amp.

 

[MomijiTMO]

+1

I'm happy to pay double/triple to give my money to the right people.

 

[GGould]

I am also willing to pay triple to the right people. But in reality, I need to pay 7 times instead of 3 times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MomijiTMO /img/forum/go_quote.gif +1 I'm happy to pay double/triple to give my money to the right people.

 

[GGould]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tintin47 /img/forum/go_quote.gif So you read AMB's statement that the clone "Is made without permission and violates the terms of use set forth on (AMB's) website", and observed that the amp design is copyrighted by AMB, and then decided to get one? In order to save a few bucks? You are taking advantage of the time and energy that Ti and by extension all of the fabulously talented DIY designers put into building this community. I would encourage you to think about what you are doing and just save up some extra money for the real amp.

I am not sure about all these legal agreements since I am no lawyer. I would like to encourage AMB or other copyright owners to look for protection from law. But as a customer, I care more about what I will get and how much I need to pay. I would like to see reviews on that clone and comparisons.

 

[Nebby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GGould /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am not sure about all these legal agreements since I am no lawyer. I would like to encourage AMB or other copyright owners to look for protection from law. But as a customer, I care more about what I will get and how much I need to pay. I would like to see reviews on that clone and comparisons.

As the cloners are in China I would imagine that it would be a waste of time and money trying to pursue legal matters with them. But what AMB has done is ask us not to patronize those vendors.

Quote:

December 15, 2008: There is a "β22" clone board using SMD parts being offered for sale in China. It is done without permission and a violation of the terms set forth on this website. AMB urges not to patronize that vendor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GGould /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am also willing to pay triple to the right people. But in reality, I need to pay 7 times instead of 3 times.

I am not sure where you are getting these figures. The first amp that was listed is going for 3,500 yuan (if my google translate is working right) which would be about $513 USD. Rockhopper audio has a three channel beta22 here: Rockhopper Audio - Store - 3-Channel Beta 22/Sigma*22 for $1800 which is more than three times the price, but definitely far from being 7 times the price.

 

[GGould]

Another one is only 2000 rmb which is $292 usd. The more expensive one is more customized. The 2000rmb one is standard. That is a complete set with s22 power. So it is one sixth of Rockhopper instead of one seventh. Sorry for my poor math.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebby /img/forum/go_quote.gif As the cloners are in China I would imagine that it would be a waste of time and money trying to pursue legal matters with them. But what AMB has done is ask us not to patronize those vendors. I am not sure where you are getting these figures. The first amp that was listed is going for 3,500 yuan (if my google translate is working right) which would be about $513 USD. Rockhopper audio has a three channel beta22 here: Rockhopper Audio - Store - 3-Channel Beta 22/Sigma*22 for $1800 which is more than three times the price, but definitely far from being 7 times the price.

 

[jcx]

the circuit is clearly public domain and only has "courtesy" protection since it is not patented

the AMB pcb may have copyright protection - a builder who does his own layout and doesn't use Ti ( or Gilmore re his designs ) names/reputations in advertising is completely free to legally build and sell an amp exactly copying the B22 or other "community design" circuit with recommended parts – they just need to redraw and retype the schematic and parts list to clear strict copyright if they provide them in user documentation


Head-Fi does discourage dissemination of leads to profit making from builds of some of these project amps as a purely local policy with no legal basis


you could debate the philosophy and practical result of the Head-Fi policy but there is no legal IP issue that supports that policy that I know of

 

[GGould]

Where is the review on this highly controversial clone?

I guess very few hifi-ers in china have ever heard from a real B22 but they definitely use many Chinese amps we are also enjoying.

Did anyone know the reputation of that clone in China?

 

[dBel84]

I understand the economics of cloning but also understand that many of the wonderful designs that we see on our DIY forums are contingent on the designers willingness to participate. Many of these designs are more sophisticated than would be seen in an otherwise commercial product.

Cloning cannot be stopped but we can choose not to support such enterprise as has been stated here.

Your desire to blatantly dismiss this infringement of intellectual property is your own endeavor but do not expect many of us to assist the process. More "Shame on You"

..dB

 

[n_maher]

^^ Well said, thread closed.