[beeman458]

n3rdling wrote:
 
Reread my posts
 
And your assumption is that I didn't.  One shouldn't have to worry about one writing that what they don't believe.  To paraphrase a local gubernatorial candidate; "Write what you mean and mean what you write."
 

 

[n3rdling]

So what do you have to say about my new proposition to Unkle Eric's upcoming CJ tests?  Seems you have no excuse this time and instead choose to ignore it.

 

[tmars78]

Quote:

So what do you have to say about my new proposition to Unkle Eric's upcoming CJ tests?  Seems you have no excuse this time and instead choose to ignore it.

If he's not ignoring it, he will just come up with some other lame excuse. All he has done is come up with excuse after excuse. Some people are willing to work on ideas for tests, but not him. He finds a flaw with all of them. He is more afraid to find out he is wrong than anyone else on this forum. 

 

[BIG POPPA]

Looks Like KB will be bringing some LCD-2 cables to the Seattle meet. Looks like a good meet to try out some headphone cables?

 

[beeman458]

tmars78 wrote:
 
All he has done is come up with excuse after excuse. Some people are willing to work on ideas for tests, but not him. He finds a flaw with all of them. He is more afraid to find out he is wrong than anyone else on this forum.
 
I see you're having trouble with your short term memory.
 

 

[beeman458]

n3rdling wrote:
 
Seems you have no excuse this time and instead choose to ignore it.
 
No excuse needed as I've already responded in this thread to your above.  The comment where I wrote that I don't like pre-amps for reasons stated.

 

[n3rdling]

Beeman I'm referring to the idea proposed here:
Quote:

 if they believe a switch box will make that drastic a difference, have them blind test if they can hear the difference between a cable going through one switch box and two switch boxes.  Hell, I'd even say run it through 10 and see if they can hear a difference.  It should be obvious to them.  If they can't hear a difference that says everything and your test has to be valid in their eyes.

Do you have a response to this?  Do you agree with it?  If not, could you please explain?

 

[BIG POPPA]

I have a switch box. To me they suck the life out of the music like a vampire. You can tell if you even use the same cable in/out. To me it is a waste of time using them. I can send my Mapletree LR-1 with 3 in/out to ever would like to use in in an experiment. My ears are too picky to use it seriously.

 

[Prog Rock Man]

BIG POPPA and Beeman, I am a bit stuck as to why you attribute negative affects to audio with a switchbox and positive ones with a headphone cable? What is in a switchbox that is bad and a headphone cable that is good?

 

[khaos974]

What is the difference between a well built switchbox and the source selector you have in a preamp?

 

[beeman458]

n3rdling wrote:
 
 if they believe a switch box will make that drastic a difference, have them blind test if they can hear the difference between a cable going through one switch box and two switch boxes.  Hell, I'd even say run it through 10 and see if they can hear a difference.  It should be obvious to them.  If they can't hear a difference that says everything and your test has to be valid in their eyes.
 
Do you have a response to this?  Do you agree with it?  If not, could you please explain?
 
I did directly respond to your above when I wrote in response to your below:
 
Here's a way to watch them add another rule to your test: if they believe a switch box will make that drastic a difference, have them blind test if they can hear the difference between a cable going through one switch box and two switch boxes.  Hell, I'd even say run it through 10 and see if they can hear a difference.
 
(My response was
 
That's sure a lot of effort for something you don't believe in, doesn't affect you, nor plan on buying in the future.
 
You can ask me a question a thousand different ways but the answer remains the same, I don't like pre-amps and that's sure a lot of effort for something you don't use.
 
What you and others "aren't" doing is exploring the bogus nature of the tests themselves.  You've convinced yourselves they're valid tests, when they're not and continue driving ahead, in the case of cables, with these invalid testing procedures which are invalid in ways that I've pointed out and will guarantee fail.  I don't care how many ways you try to dress this pig, it don't hunt and it never will.

 

[beeman458]

khaos974 wrote:
 
What is the difference between a well built switchbox and the source selector you have in a preamp?
 
There is no such thing as either a well built switch box or source selector in a pre-amp.  Everything in the signal path that doesn't need to be there, is evil.
 
The recording process is a compacting process of taking a 3D audio wave, compressing it onto a 2D storage media and then unpacking it again in as undamaged of condition as possible.  It's well know in the industry how switch boxes and pre-amps color sound and are chosen because of the type of "color" (distortion) pre-amps add to the end product.  It's also well know there are internal differences between pre-amps and these differences are reflected in build quality in the form of everything from solder choices to gold plating, to wire choices and quality of internal parts used to the huge range of price.  It's also well known how these processes and internal product choices in manufacturing color the sound.  Some might find this to be an interesting read.
 
Life isn't a zero sum game and everybody here knows that just because you can't test for and prove somethings existence, doesn't mean it's not there.

 

[nick_charles]

 
Quote:

khaos974 wrote:
 
What is the difference between a well built switchbox and the source selector you have in a preamp?
 
There is no such thing as either a well built switch box or source selector in a pre-amp.  Everything in the signal path that doesn't need to be there, is evil.
 
The recording process is a compacting process of taking a 3D audio wave, compressing it onto a 2D storage media and then unpacking it again in as undamaged of condition as possible.  It's well know in the industry how switch boxes and pre-amps color sound and are chosen because of the type of "color" (distortion) pre-amps add to the end product.  It's also well know there are internal differences between pre-amps and these differences are reflected in build quality in the form of everything from solder choices to gold plating, to wire choices and quality of internal parts used to the huge range of price.  It's also well known how these processes and internal product choices in manufacturing color the sound.  Some might find this to be an interesting read.
 
Life isn't a zero sum game and everybody here knows that just because you can't test for and prove somethings existence, doesn't mean it's not there.

Strangely enough I have investigated the issue of adding stuff to the chain, even with very ordinary parts the extra signal loss is irrelevant
 

 

 

Quote:

 

Measured degradation due to cable length, adaptor and switch box

I just tested the following combinations.

AR 3' cable no 1 (AR-3-1)
AR 3' cable no 2 (AR-3-2)
AR-3-1 plus female/female adaptor plus AR-3-2
AR-3-1 plus switchbox plus AR-3-2
AR 6' cable (AR-6)

Lowest average attenuation AR-6
Biggest average attenuation AR-3-1
Biggest difference at any frequency = 0.028db
Average difference for best/worst = 0.020db

Average difference between (switch box and 2 cables) and 6' cable = 0.012db

Average difference between (Adaptor and 2 cables) and 6' cable = 0.005db

Average difference between AR-3-2 and AR-3-1 = 0.013db

Rank order
1: Six foot cable (-9.363db)
2: Connector and cables ( - 9.368db)
3: AR-3-2 (-9.370db)
4: Switch Box and cables ( -9.375)
5: AR-3-1 (-9.383db)

and *yes* I did double check these results.

Relative Cable roll-off was measured by testing attenuation at different points viz between

1K and 20K,
2K and 20K,
3K and 20K,
4K and 20K,
5K and 20K,
6K and 20K,
7K and 20K,
8K and 20K,

Difference between best and worst at each range (db)
1K and 20K 0.011
2K and 20K 0.008
3K and 20K 0.008
4K and 20K 0.007
5K and 20K 0.007
6K and 20K 0.009
7K and 20K 0.007
8K and 20K 0.005
 

 
Nothing to lose sleep over.

 

[beeman458]

nick_charles wrote:
 
Strangely enough I have investigated the issue of adding stuff to the chain, even with very ordinary parts the extra signal loss is irrelevant
 
Your efforts are to honestly be admired and yet when one reads further on the subject, they'll read about signal degradation and how less is more when it comes to signal path, even to the point of how admittedly the choice of switch, solder, wire and component parts adds their own brand of signal degradation, distortion and color.  The point, as much as you want it to be a zero sum game, it's not as these many and varied little itty-bitty rain drops keep filling the flood pond of doubt.  In order for me to believe what the anti-cable crowd has to write, I have to ignore the very large herd of elephants in the room.  Damn things keep stepping on my toes, ain't gonna happen.  What the anti-cable crowd conveniently misses, the longer this thread continues, the more evidence mounts against them regarding the validity of their tests.  It's not getting better.

 

[nick_charles]

 
Quote:

I have a switch box. To me they suck the life out of the music like a vampire. You can tell if you even use the same cable in/out. To me it is a waste of time using them. I can send my Mapletree LR-1 with 3 in/out to ever would like to use in in an experiment. My ears are too picky to use it seriously.

 
Your switch box is obviously seriously bad, sorry, my bog standard Niles Audio AXP-1 has extremely minimal attenuation , it is a 5 in 1 out and the measured drop is incredibly tiny.
 
Actually I think you may be imagining things here. I suspect that if you recorded a sample of music via the switch box and not via the switch box that you would be wholly unable to tell the two apart in a DBT.  I seriously suggest you try this. I can provide you with similar samples (created with and without my switchbox) where I doubt you would be able to distinguish the presence of a cheap (relatively) switch box or even a $1.99 adaptor.