[bcowen]

Apologies for going off-topic here but the biggest disappointment for me was the first pair of headphones I bought: the V-Moda Crossfade LP2. I've been a full-sized 2-channel guy for most of my audio life and only entered the headphone world a couple years ago. Granted the V-Moda LP2's are hardly high-end 'phones, but they were well reviewed and seemed like a good starter set. Wrong. My thoughts at the time were if this was what I could expect out of headphones, forget it. No, just...no. Fortunately I bought them through Amazon so returning them for a refund was instant and easy, and fortunately as well they were simply an awful sounding pair of 'phones and have absolutely nothing in common with good headphones.

 

[xRaptorxPunisher]

What would you reckon to be a good upgrade for the NightHawks, headphones that have a similar richness and bloom in their sound, but are a bit more balanced and transparant?
The LCD2 (pre-fazor) and HE-500s would be hard to find. I had my mind set on ZMF's Atticus or Aeolus, but I'm not sure if they are controlled enough? I am especially worried about ringing because of cup resonance? What about the Verum One? Is the Verum without problematic peaks, especially in the upper mids?

The Atticus and Aeolus isn't that bloomy in my opinion, it does play off the cups a little but it's more subtle, if you've ever heard some of the Audio Technica woodies, it's like that where it adds that little something but isn't really substantial enough like it is with the Nighthawk. The Atticus and Aeolus also have similar edge to the HD-650 so you might find them quite aggressive unless you pad roll but then it's spending more money on pads so ends up being not worth it. The Nighthawk doesn't really have a direct upgrade, it's resolving enough to where it's on the same level as those headphones so I think it would be more of a case trying something different rather than an upgrade.

The LCD-2 I've got here from late 2017 has a similar upper mid dip to the Nighthawk but the bass is much more linear. Treble is smoother on the LCD-2 but the Nighthawk has bloom that distracts you from peaks so it can appear smoother. LCD-2 does something really nice with female vocals. voices just so really lush, easy going you can listen without worry of some edginess. It is a bit more resolving than the Nighthawk, I'm not going to say it's a massive upgrade, it isn't just like the LCD-4 isn't a massive upgrade over the LCD-2 it's a small %. It sounds like you'll prefer an Audeze as you seem to like a more easy going phone.

Verum might be worth a look but they can be a bit bright, a lot of people think the Verum is dark and I have to scratch my head at that, they have some nice air, a really good timbre, you might find Verum a bit gritty compared to the Nighthawk not sure about the MK2 though as they now use the perf pads which seems to smooth the FR more. If you really love the Nighthawks bass, the TH900 is a monster but the treble is ridiculous.

Gun to my head, I'd probably say LCD-2 would be a good move for those lush voices, good resolve, ultra clean bass and low distortion.

 

[Mink]

Thanks! Wow, this saves me a lot of money. From what I've read everywhere the ZMFs are in a different league all toghether, but I guess this is all relative.
I'll pass on the TH900s, I own the Denon D5000s already (with which I have a love/hate relationship) and I don't think can handle more highs.
The Verum one still keeps my interest, because the price is not that outrageous and if I don't like them a full 100% I could just keep them for the different flavor and no real financial harm is done. A pair that costs over 1000 USD must be more than just a different flavor.
I'll check the LCD2s out. What do you think of the LCD2 Classics?

 

[xRaptorxPunisher]

Thanks! Wow, this saves me a lot of money. From what I've read everywhere the ZMFs are in a different league all toghether, but I guess this is all relative.
I'll pass on the TH900s, I own the Denon D5000s already (with which I have a love/hate relationship) and I don't think can handle more highs.
The Verum one still keeps my interest, because the price is not that outrageous and if I don't like them a full 100% I could just keep them for the different flavor and no real financial harm is done. A pair that costs over 1000 USD must be more than just a different flavor.
I'll check the LCD2s out. What do you think of the LCD2 Classics?

I think in this hobby there's a lot of pressure to get something better but reality is most of the stuff is just different. The D5000 are great headphones, I personally prefer the D5000 + D7000 over Atticus and Aeolus there's something about the old Denons that were pretty special. Zach makes some decent headphones I find them a bit overrated online, they're just a different take on sound. The Verum is worth having in the collection it does a lot of things so well if you want an all-rounder.

The LCD-2C is a good headphone, bass is fantastic if you like that linear sub bass, there's a weird peak around 6k that makes them sound a bit grainy, bit ever so slightly hot, edgy, not as cohesive but they're very fast, snappy sounding. An example is my LCD-2 have a fairly smooth response, a bit of lushness to everything where as the classic is more dry, leaner, feels like it doesn't carry much fat to the sound compared to some other Audeze phones. I do think the Verum is a bit better than the LCD-2C though, more resolving, cleaner, smoother frequency response but the wait times are longer and the warranty isn't as generous. The 2C response really well to pad swaps, the Audeze vegans give them a more HD650 with sub bass type character with less shout at 5k or the Dekoni Velour pads give them slightly less subbass but smooths out the response at 6k giving them, a more cohesive sound.

 

[chesebert]

To be honest, I do the hole mod + DCA tuning pad (white 1 notch) with HD650 in addition to mild EQ. But that mid range performance deserves some time with the tweaks to get treble and bass in line.

No headphone is perfect - not HE90 not HE1. Just find one that works relatively well out of the box then add tweaks and EQ to get it sound the way you like.

 

[Mink]

I think in this hobby there's a lot of pressure to get something better but reality is most of the stuff is just different. The D5000 are great headphones, I personally prefer the D5000 + D7000 over Atticus and Aeolus there's something about the old Denons that were pretty special. Zach makes some decent headphones I find them a bit overrated online, they're just a different take on sound. The Verum is worth having in the collection it does a lot of things so well if you want an all-rounder.

The LCD-2C is a good headphone, bass is fantastic if you like that linear sub bass, there's a weird peak around 6k that makes them sound a bit grainy, bit ever so slightly hot, edgy, not as cohesive but they're very fast, snappy sounding. An example is my LCD-2 have a fairly smooth response, a bit of lushness to everything where as the classic is more dry, leaner, feels like it doesn't carry much fat to the sound compared to some other Audeze phones. I do think the Verum is a bit better than the LCD-2C though, more resolving, cleaner, smoother frequency response but the wait times are longer and the warranty isn't as generous. The 2C response really well to pad swaps, the Audeze vegans give them a more HD650 with sub bass type character with less shout at 5k or the Dekoni Velour pads give them slightly less subbass but smooths out the response at 6k giving them, a more cohesive sound.

Many thanks.
The Verum one will be the first planar I'm gonna try in a long time. (The only other planar I ever have auditioned was the Oppo PM3, which didn't do it for me)
And, ehm...apologies to the topicstarter for hijacking this thread.

 

[Unf0]

IMO hd-58x and hd-650.. too veiled

 

[descloud]

Oppo PM-3. A lot of reviews online described them as "accurate" and "natural sounding". Both I find were not the case for me.

Build quality and craftsmanship are excellent. Accessories are top notch. But the sound quality was just... not what I was expecting. Especially compared to the Audeze Sine that I currently have.

Tonality was just wrong. There is this mid-bass emphasis and extended hump that makes voices and instruments sound like you were hearing them behind some plastic filter. Further, there was this weird treble peak that Aornic described in his review where I quote:

"there’s a random jump in the treble somewhere that actually manages to be sibilant at times, which is really out of place with the rest of the headphone. Things falling in this region are heightened, if not hot at times, but the rest of the treble sounds in line with the rest of the headphone – dull."

EQ somewhat helps, but it's a lot of adjustments that I can't always apply to all devices I use to listen to music with them given that they're meant to be portable.

 

[carlman14]

For me, it was the Stax SR-007 mk1. I know many people consider this to be one of the best stax headphones, but they just did not agree with me. I found them to be boring and super uncomfortable. I don't understand why anyone would make a headphone whose cups can't rotate back and forth...

 

[SilverEars]

Oppo PM-3. A lot of reviews online described them as "accurate" and "natural sounding". Both I find were not the case for me.

Build quality and craftsmanship are excellent. Accessories are top notch. But the sound quality was just... not what I was expecting. Especially compared to the Audeze Sine that I currently have.

Tonality was just wrong. There is this mid-bass emphasis and extended hump that makes voices and instruments sound like you were hearing them behind some plastic filter. Further, there was this weird treble peak that Aornic described in his review where I quote:

"there’s a random jump in the treble somewhere that actually manages to be sibilant at times, which is really out of place with the rest of the headphone. Things falling in this region are heightened, if not hot at times, but the rest of the treble sounds in line with the rest of the headphone – dull."

EQ somewhat helps, but it's a lot of adjustments that I can't always apply to all devices I use to listen to music with them given that they're meant to be portable.

PMX2 was modified Oppo PM-2, and had an unusual sound to it. It sounded weirdly silky smooth without any thick treble sounds. I don't know how the modification was carried out, but it was indeed unusual sounding. I can't imagine high-hats having any glimmer with such headphone, but flattened imaging of high-hats.

Based on measurements (doesn't look all that accurate of a rig), he seems to have flattened the response with slight reduction in the lower mid treble area. Might be why it sounds weirdly 'silky.'

You won't get hardly any sibilance with PMX2 due to it's odd response.

http://www.audiozenith.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/AudioZenith_54x84-banner-type2bcropped.jpg

I've heard people associate 'neutral' with this headphone and it's probably due to the measurement appearing flat looking, although flat headphones really arn't 'neutral.'

Response cannot be flat like that if an ear similar is involved. I can see it looking like his measurement in a DIY rig, but look totally different on a rig with an ear simulator. It would be crazy if he called it 'neutral' and tuned it with a DIY rig.

 

[frankensmurf]

A pair of Pioneer SE-1000. GOt them for cheap and thought they would do... sounded like nails on a chalk board.

 

[descloud]

PMX2 was modified Oppo PM-2, and had an unusual sound to it. It sounded weirdly silky smooth without any thick treble sounds. I don't know how the modification was carried out, but it was indeed unusual sounding. I can't imagine high-hats having any glimmer with such headphone, but flattened imaging of high-hats.

Based on measurements (doesn't look all that accurate of a rig), he seems to have flattened the response with slight reduction in the lower mid treble area. Might be why it sounds weirdly 'silky.'

You won't get hardly any sibilance with PMX2 due to it's odd response.

http://www.audiozenith.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/AudioZenith_54x84-banner-type2bcropped.jpg

I've heard people associate 'neutral' with this headphone and it's probably due to the measurement appearing flat looking, although flat headphones really arn't 'neutral.'

Response cannot be flat like that if an ear similar is involved. I can see it looking like his measurement in a DIY rig, but look totally different on a rig with an ear simulator. It would be crazy if he called it 'neutral' and tuned it with a DIY rig.

I can't say anything about the PM-2 since I never got the chance to try them.

But looking at the PM-3 graph, there seems to be that big hill between 8k-9k that might be causing certain frequencies to jump out randomly in the treble. It's not always the case, but for some female vocals with higher octave, I sometimes get that treble spike out of nowhere.

As for the PM-3 being neutral, in a sense they are since it seems flat from Tyll's measurements until that big drop starting at 4k then swinging back up somewhere around 7k. But sound wise, their midrange is really like being covered in plastic or something that's muffling the voices and instruments - making them inaccurate and unnatural to put it lightly.

 

[Ficcion2]

This is the most dangerous (financially) hobby I've been into so reading through many others' experiences has been saving my impulsive shopping habits.

I bought my first set up about 10 months ago which was HD660s with Ifi Nano BL.

I wasnt amazed but its 10x more musical than my Bose A2 into my laptop.

My first exposure to planars were an eye opener so I bought a pair of Sundaras. A week later I bought a pair of DC Aeon 2 Open.

Ive spent the last 2 weeks living with my Aeons on my head and a while ago I went back to my 660s and theyre darn boring to me now. (Less texture, thump and energy) I think the Sundaras have to go too even though I prefer them to the Senns except for vocals.

Going over the $1k mark for headphones I havent tried is the only thing holding me back from getting some Verites.

But I wonder how many have gone in the deep end and are disappointed for the amount of cash they dropped.

 

[ThanatosVI]

This is the most dangerous (financially) hobby I've been into so reading through many others' experiences has been saving my impulsive shopping habits.

I bought my first set up about 10 months ago which was HD660s with Ifi Nano BL.

I wasnt amazed but its 10x more musical than my Bose A2 into my laptop.

My first exposure to planars were an eye opener so I bought a pair of Sundaras. A week later I bought a pair of DC Aeon 2 Open.

Ive spent the last 2 weeks living with my Aeons on my head and a while ago I went back to my 660s and theyre darn boring to me now. (Less texture, thump and energy) I think the Sundaras have to go too even though I prefer them to the Senns except for vocals.

Going over the $1k mark for headphones I havent tried is the only thing holding me back from getting some Verites.

But I wonder how many have gone in the deep end and are disappointed for the amount of cash they dropped.

I also stepped up little by little, in every price region I bought a few sidegrades over time.
Until I now ended up with the Meze Empyrean (should arrive friday)

My regrets come rather from the other side, since it was in total way more expensive that way.

And I just cant go back, I really loved my Shure SRH 1540, when I try them again now I can't enjoy them at all anymore. They are simply that much worse than my ~1k bracket cans (for their price they are still excellent tho)

However another important aspect is, that by buying many headphones and sidegrades I really got to know my preferences in sound, what is important to me personally and what is not.
Which was extremely important for the decision to commit on a TOTL.

In short, I never regretted going up in a higher price league, I only regretted that I "wasted" money before doing so.
While bot universally true, "you get what you pay for" - however I went for many "giant Killers" which were known to give a lot Bang for the buck.

 

[ChoColostrum]

Senn HE-1 and the mandatory Ultrasone E10

Were you able to try the Edition 10 personally?