[Eagle_Driver]

It's been awhile since I've listened to the closed version, is the Nightowl or hawk? I forget what it was exactly that stood out, but I can't say it was bloom, but really weird tonality like something really off in the response. For me it's usually thick mids immediately followed by abrupt recession in the upper-mids. Oh man the Z7. I found it odd tonality as well. I just can't find a high-end Sony that has accuracy.

That was exactly what I found on my MDR-7509. Too much lower midrange bloom and too sucked out in the upper midrange. I did upgrade my smartphone from a cheapo Samsung J series phone from 2017 to a part of Samsung's flagship lineup from last year, and I can tell the difference with my 7509. The MDR-7509 did not sound anywhere near as bad from the S10e as it did from the J7, although it still needs better tuning to sound as good as I wanted it to sound.

As for my most disappointing actual experience with headphones, it was definitely the Grado SR-325 (the original model, not the later i or e models). I could not get over its blaring upper-midrange boost, but also that the headphone was too heavy and uncomfy for even a few minutes of listening. The Audio Technica ATH-M50x did not impress me when I used it with my old J7 smartphone, but I have not touched it since I acquired my current S10e. I will re-evaluate the M50x in the near future.

My newest headphone purchase is the Beyerdynamic DT-990 Pro 250-Ohm model (purchased and picked up curbside in the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic). They still are a bit too bright, but I found them more tolerable than the aforementioned SR-325 and a Sennheiser HD 590 (choke**Bionetic**choke).

 

[kman1211]

I tend to prefer Purrins measurements as they tend to reflect how I hear a headphone for the most part, It depends on the definition of bloom, like to me the Audioquest Nighthawk sounds too bloomy, lack of definition, the Aeon is a weird one as I feel it's compression is worse than the mid bass. I do tend to favour like an LCD-2 or LCD-4 presentation where the bass meets the mids in a linear fashion and the slight lush colouration, depends how it's done.

I also hate anything too lean, if the thickness of a strong male voice is not well representative, it's a no go for me.

The Nighthawk definitely has too much bloom, some cup resonance issues, and uneveness in the treble. Most of it's issues can be fixed with modding, it's actually quite defined but it's tuning and not quite ideal housing masks and hinders it's fidelity. Still some inherent issues with it though.

It's not really dark. The HD 650 is darker actually once that bass bloom is gone on the Nighthawk. Interestingly I find my T1.2 Black Edition is probably my darkest headphone. They retuned the T1.2's at one point or the black ones sound different as an old T1.2 I heard was like supernova bright. My T1 is a rather warm, dark, and lush sounding headphone.

 

[xRaptorxPunisher]

The Nighthawk definitely has too much bloom, some cup resonance issues, and uneveness in the treble. Most of it's issues can be fixed with modding, it's actually quite defined but it's tuning and not quite ideal housing masks and hinders it's fidelity. Still some inherent issues with it though.

It's not really dark. The HD 650 is darker actually once that bass bloom is gone on the Nighthawk. Interestingly I find my T1.2 Black Edition is probably my darkest headphone. They retuned the T1.2's at one point or the black ones sound different.

For sure, the HD650 has more energy around 5k which gives voices some shout, edge but they're dark, muted in the treble in terms of level. Where the HD650 excels is it's cohesive transitions, overall resolve on higher end gear. Funny you mention Beyer, I bought some 880's prems the other day as I wanted a gaming headphone(HD800 had too much mid bass for games) phenomenal headphone, resolution seems on par with my LCD-2, HE-500, I use for music and competes with others I have laying around here like the really spacious, airy character. On paper the 880 is a headphone that I would hate and find harsh! didn't sound like this when Itried them before form memory. I actually think I could live with those two for good as I've found myself listening to them for music more and more. I found all the other Beyers quite harsh, Amiron was a weird one I heard recently, has good qualities though. What I do like about Beyer is they're unapologetic in their tunings, manly.

 

[Jones Bob]

STAX earspeakers.

I went deep into the rabbit hole, only to discover in the end I was not emotionally engaged by the sound of their electrostatic headphones. Maybe I’d appreciate other makers’ electrostatic cans more, but never got around to chasing those down.

 

[acguitar84]

Where the HD650 excels is it's cohesive transitions, overall resolve on higher end gear.

I really love my HD650! That said I decided to try out some other headphones, I have an HD800s on order and I'd really love to hear the Grado PS2000e and Utopia sometime. Pretty cool that you kept your HD650 when you have the Focals!

On the thread topic, I haven't ever been too disappointed in a set of headphones, but I haven't owned too many of them either (yet!). With me, it's been more what I'm running them with that changes my opinion/experience with them. For instance, I love the chain ADI RME DAC - Jotunheim - HD650. But not so thrilled when I substitute Grado PS1000e for the HD650. I listen for awhile, but the treble gets to me and I switch back to the HD650. But, when I plugged the PS1000e into the Woo Wa7 Fireflies, now that's a good match IMO.

I have a new amp coming in (Headamp gsx mini), and am interested in hearing what it can do with the PS1000e! I'm sure the HD650 will be fine, as you said and so many others have said too, the HD650 scales. It's truly a remarkable headphone, (IMO of course).

 

[Allegro maestoso]

My biggest disappointment was the Ether CX. Massdrop knocked it out of the park with the Elex, which is my favorite headphone to this day. I wanted a closed back planar to contrast the Focals, and MD had impressed me so far with the Elex and the Cavalli tube hybrid amp. So I pulled the trigger on the CX. I tried and tried to find a combination that worked with them, but no matter what I did they were lifeless, dull, painfully neutral.

The cans have a sensitivity of 94dB / mW so they are not that easy to drive. Being planars they require a ton of current which can prove problematic for many amps.

Not sure about the sensitivity on the CX, but this may have had something to do with it. My Aivas and LCD-2Cs are quite happy with the amps in my inventory.

 

[xRaptorxPunisher]

I really love my HD650! That said I decided to try out some other headphones, I have an HD800s on order and I'd really love to hear the Grado PS2000e and Utopia sometime. Pretty cool that you kept your HD650 when you have the Focals!

On the thread topic, I haven't ever been too disappointed in a set of headphones, but I haven't owned too many of them either (yet!). With me, it's been more what I'm running them with that changes my opinion/experience with them. For instance, I love the chain ADI RME DAC - Jotunheim - HD650. But not so thrilled when I substitute Grado PS1000e for the HD650. I listen for awhile, but the treble gets to me and I switch back to the HD650. But, when I plugged the PS1000e into the Woo Wa7 Fireflies, now that's a good match IMO.

I have a new amp coming in (Headamp gsx mini), and am interested in hearing what it can do with the PS1000e! I'm sure the HD650 will be fine, as you said and so many others have said too, the HD650 scales. It's truly a remarkable headphone, (IMO of course).

The HD650 are fantastic, they're easily end game on a good rig, the only thing that stops them competing with the best is the bass distortion but a HD650 beats a lot of headphones that are many more times more expensive. The HD800 are very different, side grades in my opinion, the HD800 beats out the HD650 in resolution slightly, bass quality, treble resolve where the HD650 wins in tonal balance, mid range, treble smoothness and timbre. I had both hooked up to a ZDS and it was surprising how close they are technically.

 

[kman1211]

For sure, the HD650 has more energy around 5k which gives voices some shout, edge but they're dark, muted in the treble in terms of level. Where the HD650 excels is it's cohesive transitions, overall resolve on higher end gear. Funny you mention Beyer, I bought some 880's prems the other day as I wanted a gaming headphone(HD800 had too much mid bass for games) phenomenal headphone, resolution seems on par with my LCD-2, HE-500, I use for music and competes with others I have laying around here like the really spacious, airy character. On paper the 880 is a headphone that I would hate and find harsh! didn't sound like this when Itried them before form memory. I actually think I could live with those two for good as I've found myself listening to them for music more and more. I found all the other Beyers quite harsh, Amiron was a weird one I heard recently, has good qualities though. What I do like about Beyer is they're unapologetic in their tunings, manly.

It does, it can make them sound a bit abrasive unless on a system that controls that area well. That is true. The DT 880 is a good headphone, need to try a 600 ohm pair sometime. The Amiron Home is a weird one, big treble spike but it's not harsh in the treble spike like the DT 1990 can be, the Amiron Home sounds better the longer you listen to it. The T1.2 Black isn't harsh either, a bit of a treble peak but less present and even better quality than the Amirons, overall sound is very smooth and cohesive though tuned for warmth. I find it the best jack of all trade headphone I've ever come across. I personally think Beyers fidelity is underrated due to their varied tunings and people assume the treble spike is what gives them their detail and clarity which isn't actually the case in my experience, I often find it hinders their clarity as I find overly bright treble often creates a hazy veil effect to my ears.

 

[ThanatosVI]

It does, it can make them sound a bit abrasive unless on a system that controls that area well. That is true. The DT 880 is a good headphone, need to try a 600 ohm pair sometime. The Amiron Home is a weird one, big treble spike but it's not harsh in the treble spike like the DT 1990 can be, the Amiron Home sounds better the longer you listen to it. The T1.2 Black isn't harsh either, a bit of a treble peak but less present and even better quality than the Amirons, overall sound is very smooth and cohesive though tuned for warmth. I find it the best jack of all trade headphone I've ever come across. I personally think Beyers fidelity is underrated due to their varied tunings and people assume the treble spike is what gives them their detail and clarity which isn't actually the case in my experience, I often find it hinders their clarity as I find overly bright treble often creates a hazy veil effect to my ears.

Do the Black versions have different tuning?

 

[kman1211]

Do the Black versions have different tuning?

Possibly, I am thinking the pads are different, but it's speculation based on hearing 2 black pairs and an older silver pair. Not sure if they retuned them at one point, the blacks are different, or if something was wrong with that older pair. I'll have to get or try a newer silver pair to confirm. That older silver T1.2 I had was one of the biggest disappointments I had in headphone audio.

 

[Mink]

The HD650 are fantastic, they're easily end game on a good rig, the only thing that stops them competing with the best is the bass distortion but a HD650 beats a lot of headphones that are many more times more expensive.

I really would like to love the HD650, but the music I often listen to is Baroque which is played in the so called 'historically informed' fashion which means without vibrato, with a smaller, leaner orchestra. High pitched violins (playing long drawn out legato lines), high pitched sopranos and crescendos of big choirs (which are tough to record to begin with) can easily grate, shout or start to ring. I find the HD650 and HD600s specifically horrible with this kind of music, because of the upper mid/low treble peak.
The NightHawk and Owl are the only pairs that keep total control, who don't distort, ring or shout at me.

 

[JDFlood]

Denon AH D7000. Beautiful wood. But I could not get the bass under control. Finally i purchased a very high amperage headphone amp for my Audez, it could control the bass. sounded great for rock, but I listen to many varieties of music and they did not have the finesse and air to handle them well. oh well, how else do you learn.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

The Audio Technica ATH-M50x did not impress me when I used it with my old J7 smartphone, but I have not touched it since I acquired my current S10e. I will re-evaluate the M50x in the near future.

I unearthed it for the first time in weeks (if not months). They were boring and uninspiring out of my old Galaxy J7 smartphone. Today I listened to the M50x on my S10e, and now I can understand why that headphone is so polarizing. The bass, especially midbass, was just too much for me to bear. That corresponds to a "painfully woofy" feeling. The highs are tinny, uneven and lacking in definition (there is a peak at around 4 kHz in that headphone). In other words, the M50x's sound quality is not to my liking.

I know now that I have not yet found a closed-back full-sized headphone that I really liked. My MDR-7506 needs no explanation. A bit screechy and lacking in air both at the same time. My MDR-7509 (non-HD) would have been close if it weren't for the lack of damping in the earcups.

 

[xRaptorxPunisher]

It does, it can make them sound a bit abrasive unless on a system that controls that area well. That is true. The DT 880 is a good headphone, need to try a 600 ohm pair sometime. The Amiron Home is a weird one, big treble spike but it's not harsh in the treble spike like the DT 1990 can be, the Amiron Home sounds better the longer you listen to it. The T1.2 Black isn't harsh either, a bit of a treble peak but less present and even better quality than the Amirons, overall sound is very smooth and cohesive though tuned for warmth. I find it the best jack of all trade headphone I've ever come across. I personally think Beyers fidelity is underrated due to their varied tunings and people assume the treble spike is what gives them their detail and clarity which isn't actually the case in my experience, I often find it hinders their clarity as I find overly bright treble often creates a hazy veil effect to my ears.

I think the 880 has deffo given me some motivation to give a lot of the Beyers I dismissed in the past. It to me sounds as resolving as any high end phone. I might give a current T1, Amiron a long listen, the comfort is certainly appreciated from all their phones, I've gotten so used to massive planars I forget what a comfortable light phone feels like. They're for sure underrated for their ability, I don't think any quite resolve to say a HD800 or LCD-4 for minute details but an older T1 I tried years ago was close enough.

I really would like to love the HD650, but the music I often listen to is Baroque which is played in the so called 'historically informed' fashion which means without vibrato, with a smaller, leaner orchestra. High pitched violins (playing long drawn out legato lines), high pitched sopranos and crescendos of big choirs (which are tough to record to begin with) can easily grate, shout or start to ring. I find the HD650 and HD600s specifically horrible with this kind of music, because of the upper mid/low treble peak.
The NightHawk and Owl are the only pairs that keep total control, who don't distort, ring or shout at me.

I much prefer the older versions with worn pads that had much less 5k energy. I've grown irritated by female vocals that have too much grit in that presence. The HD650 is super smooth all until that region and I tend to almost always reach for an Audeze or HE-500 these days. I found with the Nighthawk I played a lot of music I'd listen to in my teenage days, I'm 33 soon and it's nice to feel younthful, Nighthawks have that affect along with my LCD-2 which is why they have a place in my collection. I sold most of the phones in my signature I need to update it but the Utopia was horrible to listen to outside of it's technical ability, which isn't any better than an HD800 or LCD-4. That's good you feel you can listen to the Hawks without worrying about peaks, that is what's important, listening to the music without feeling like you're listening to gear, an annoying peak in the wrong spot is the biggest immersion breaker.

 

[Mink]

I much prefer the older versions with worn pads that had much less 5k energy. I've grown irritated by female vocals that have too much grit in that presence. The HD650 is super smooth all until that region and I tend to almost always reach for an Audeze or HE-500 these days.

What would you reckon to be a good upgrade for the NightHawks, headphones that have a similar richness and bloom in their sound, but are a bit more balanced and transparant?
The LCD2 (pre-fazor) and HE-500s would be hard to find. I had my mind set on ZMF's Atticus or Aeolus, but I'm not sure if they are controlled enough? I am especially worried about ringing because of cup resonance? What about the Verum One? Is the Verum without problematic peaks, especially in the upper mids?