[grndslm]

I just happened to stumble across a 5G iPod for super cheap from a friend... but I've gotta few questions about the line out problem.

What does Vinnie's $250 wortha magic actually do when I need to buy an ALO line out cable interconnect anyway? Couldn't I just do those DIY ipod connecters with built-in 3.5mm female socket?? But then I hear some people saying that docks with line outs aren't really line outs... or are those just certain docks?

-Thanks in advance!

 

[enjoiflobees]

haha. I could explain to you the whole iMod but I believe somewhere in the forum or his website www.redwineaudio.com would help you alot more. basically vinnie's mod by passes all the weak signal paths and cheap parts and takes the output straight from the DAC. Also the cable is needed for the caps inside them.

The line out is the line out unless they are taking the signal from the headphone part, but then it wouldnt be dock. so yea because I dont believe there is a headphone out in the bottom of the iPod, it is line out. But the quality of the lineout is not as good as the iMod and most likely neither is the cable.

Well it is all about quality and how much of it you want. Max- red wine ( to me and most) alright- line out dock cable, worse- headphone out.

good luck!

 

[grndslm]

So what about the iPod connector with female socket??? That's about as much as I'm willing to spend... don't think I could possibly bring myself to pay $300+ to imod the 5Gs.

 

[mdarnton]

On the bottom, there's a line-out level, (amplified) feed from the DAC (I don't think any DAC puts out a line-out level signal without SOME type of amplification?), which I guess qualifies as a real line-out, but generated by less than spectacular electronics. Skipping that, and going directly from the DAC, is the reason for the RedWine/ALO mod.

And if I gather correctly, the iPod headphone signal at about 3/4 level setting is identical to that line-out signal , and for your listening pleasure is either attenuated below that point, or amplified slightly above it, depending on how you set volume. So really, if you take line-out off the bottom, it would appear the only electronics you skip are the volume control and maybe another little bit of amplification or attenuation.

At least that's what I've been able to gather after avidly following iPod line-out discussions for a while. I've tested this by finding the headphone level setting which is exactly the same as the "line-out" and switching my headphones and amp back and forth between them. I can't hear a bit of difference between the two, myself, which would tend to support the idea outlined above.

The real electronics guys never seem to hang around threads like this, but it would be interesting to have good solid info from them on this.

 

[itsborken]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndslm /img/forum/go_quote.gif So what about the iPod connector with female socket??? That's about as much as I'm willing to spend... don't think I could possibly bring myself to pay $300+ to imod the 5Gs.

You mean the dock with the 3.5mm female adapter that is intended to take a standard male lineout cable? Getting that version adds another connection (weak point in audio signals). If you get a dock for lineout, get one with the cable built in to connect to your amp. I feel the lineout to a good amp beats the circuit in the stock ipod and these you can buid yourself.

Other people have tried to build the 5G iMod lineout cable and said it was rather painful to get it all done and it was worth every penny to have ALO do the work. Your skill level may be better and only you can determine if it is feasible or not.

It's your choice/your ears as to whether the iMod is worth it to you. To me it is easy to hear the difference between the unmodified headphone out on a 5G and the enhanced iMod lineout. If you can't hear the difference and can save the cost, consider yourself lucky. Happy listening.

 

[K2Grey]

To support mdarnton, what I have heard is that on the chip used for the iPod, there are two identical line-outs (i.e. both are subject to hardware amplification). One is sent to the so called iPod line out. The other is subject to digital attenuation. If you set the volume to the very max, there is a bit of digital amplification (not sure what the correct term for that is), which is strongly to be avoided. But at +0 digital attenuation it is identical to the lineout.

Again, that is only what I have heard long in the past, so don't quote me or put too much importance on my words, but I wonder if my poor memory results in less reliable information than the quadruple hearsay that others sometimes give.

Now, what the RedWine mod does is that it takes the line out directly from the DAC, puts it through good parts (iirc they are two blackgate capacitors), and that is it. So the quality of the RWA iPod is restricted by the intrinsic capabilities of the iPod's DAC, circuit, etc. I do not know how much stuff is normally in the signal path, so I don't know precisely how much of a technical improvement is made.

 

[Tone Def]

Because of the size of the 5g ipod the capacitors are in the dock. Thats why you need the cable from ALO.

Try http://www.redwineaudio.com/iMod.html

If you wanna get it cheaper why not sell your 5th gen ipod buy a refurbed 4th gen unit from someplace like rapidrepair, have the mod done for $199 and get one of the diy'ers around here to make you a mini to mini cable.

Although if you're planning to spend that much cash on the mod, do you really want to skimp on the cable?

Just my two cents.

 

[unclejr]

Having said all of that, if you are a skilled and experience DIYer, you can certainly build a LOD with the black gate caps built in, if you can figure out how to get it done without damaging everything, of course. I think you could probably DIY it for less than the 85 USD (was 75 USD) female dock option that ALO offers.

 

[stevenkelby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclejr /img/forum/go_quote.gif Having said all of that, if you are a skilled and experience DIYer, you can certainly build a LOD with the black gate caps built in, if you can figure out how to get it done without damaging everything, of course. I think you could probably DIY it for less than the 85 USD (was 75 USD) female dock option that ALO offers.

Is anyone aware of anyone who has successfully done this, not just hypothesized about it?

 

[itsborken]

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclejr /img/forum/go_quote.gif Having said all of that, if you are a skilled and experience DIYer, you can certainly build a LOD with the black gate caps built in, if you can figure out how to get it done without damaging everything, of course. I think you could probably DIY it for less than the 85 USD (was 75 USD) female dock option that ALO offers.

Agreed, but given that Vinnie and ALO are in an exclusive arrangement, I'm not sure anyone could reverse engineer it and make it public domain without getting the opportunity to talk with their lawyers (extensively).

 

[Tone Def]

umm not sure if you know this but you're gonna need an amp as well.

Whoops just saw the amp in you sig...off to the naughty corner for me.

 

[unclejr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsborken /img/forum/go_quote.gif Agreed, but given that Vinnie and ALO are in an exclusive arrangement, I'm not sure anyone could reverse engineer it and make it public domain without getting the opportunity to talk with their lawyers (extensively).

I was just thinking in regard to personal use.

Anyway, I work in the theory domain. Blame it on the day job. Which I need to get back to .....

 

[stevenkelby]

I'm sure it could be done theoretically and there would be no legal issue if you use it for yourself and don't sell them but I suspect it is harder to do than expected.

 

[itsborken]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevenkelby /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm sure it could be done theoretically and there would be no legal issue if you use it for yourself and don't sell them but I suspect it is harder to do than expected.

Right, but to reverse engineer it you have to have one. If you have one, you don't need to reverse engineer it. If you 'give' it to others vs sell it there is no moral difference in my book; you still deprive Vinnie/ALO of their just due.

Searching back in the history, someone claimed Vinnie had to use a microscope to do the mod. The iPod interior is cramped and unless you are careful I would imagine it would be easy to destroy the iPod. That's a risk most of us wouldn't take and I DIY. A man's got to know his limitations..

 

[stevenkelby]

Oh I agree with you 100% with all of that!