What's the LEAST bright can?

[Davesrose]

yep....getting grills from the manufacturer is a whopping $8 each. Main thing is you have to wait a couple months for Sennheiser to get them in stock!! Stock # 092815 . I'd also recommend getting 650 cables (580/600 are flimsy and can go out pretty easily: cable:092885 ($13)....1/4 plug to 1/8 mini adapter (needed for 650 cable) ($4.86)

 

[catscratch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek /img/forum/go_quote.gif Gosh, people make it sound like the HD650s are nearly unusable without thousands of dollars worth of expensive equipment. Honestly, would a company that has been doing this as long as Sennheiser, and has as much experience with this as they do, ever release such a profoundly flawed product?

Don't mean to pick on you, but there are many here who feel that the HD650 is profoundly flawed, myself among them. I also don't have any kind of faith in any company whatsoever, I just judge products individually as they come into my possession.

You're definitely right though in that the HD650 doesn't need $$$ to sound good. Synergy is much more important here. I've really liked how it sounds out of a Porta Corda Mk II, for instance.

Overall, I second (third, tenth, whatever) the HD650 suggestion, and I have to add the SR-001 Mk II suggestion in there as well, as it's treble is even more tame and less fatiguing.

 

[robm321]

Senn HD650, very laid back and non engaging... uh I mean non aggressive with rolled off highs. The 600 sounds brighter.

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch /img/forum/go_quote.gif Don't mean to pick on you, but there are many here who feel that the HD650 is profoundly flawed, myself among them. I also don't have any kind of faith in any company whatsoever, I just judge products individually as they come into my possession.

We're also going off topic from the OP (forgive me OP), but, I do agree that the HD650 is different from the HD580/600.....flawed, I disagree about that. Seems that there are some who love the HD600, hate the HD650. Others, like me, have room to love both!

I first got the 650s wondering if they'd be the bass heavy monsters some threads around here make them out to be. Instead, I found them to be slightly easier to drive then the HD580, slightly more detailed, and have some amazing controlled bass. Don't get me wrong, I still have my beloved first hi fi can, the 580. They're still the best for my classical guitar. But I think the 650s are some good general cans that may only get dark or muddy with some uber tubey equipment.

 

[PiccoloNamek]

Quote:

Don't mean to pick on you, but there are many here who feel that the HD650 is profoundly flawed, myself among them.

Well, I'll have to disagree with you there.

 

[catscratch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif We're also going off topic from the OP (forgive me OP), but, I do agree that the HD650 is different from the HD580/600.....flawed, I disagree about that. Seems that there are some who love the HD600, hate the HD650. Others, like me, have room to love both! I first got the 650s wondering if they'd be the bass heavy monsters some threads around here make them out to be. Instead, I found them to be slightly easier to drive then the HD580, slightly more detailed, and have some amazing controlled bass. Don't get me wrong, I still have my beloved first hi fi can, the 580. They're still the best for my classical guitar. But I think the 650s are some good general cans that may only get dark or muddy with some uber tubey equipment.

You can be flawed and good at the same time. The 650's have many virtues, but they are bass-colored and overly slow. The 600's don't have the bass coloration but they have even more of a problem with slowness. That doesn't mean that the 650's or the 600's aren't good headphones. The SR-404 is my favorite headphone ATM and it is also seriously flawed with it's upper midrange spike.

There are truly very few headphones out there that aren't seriously flawed in one way or another. My many different headphones get different head-time depending on what virtues I'm looking for at the moment: accurate tone-color = HD600, speed and resolution even with very heavy material = SR-404, warm and forgiving to bad recordings = SR-003, pounding psy-trance monsters = ES2.

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch /img/forum/go_quote.gif You can be flawed and good at the same time. The 650's have many virtues, but they are bass-colored and overly slow. The 600's don't have the bass coloration but they have even more of a problem with slowness. That doesn't mean that the 650's or the 600's aren't good headphones. The SR-404 is my favorite headphone ATM and it is also seriously flawed with it's upper midrange spike.

You sound like a true head-fier if you're finding flaws in practically every headphone you listen to !!

robm321 says that the 650 isn't as bright.....which has made me wonder how we percieve brightness.....guess it's like how some hear veil. That all phones are able to produce a lot of frequencies, but they have certain emphasis on certain frequencies. If you compare the FRGs of the 600s and 650s, the 650s actually have more treble extension in the high frequencies......the 600s have some more spikes in the upper mid frequencies. So to my ears, that sort of cancels them out.....That mid definition of the 580/600 is probably what I like in classical guitar, but rolled off treble is what I'm seeing as slow for more general music. Probably why I am keeping the HD580, HD595, and HD650!! Each has their own attributes that do well with certain genres of music.

 

[PiccoloNamek]

Quote:

and overly slow.

Sorry to continue the derailment, but I have to severely disagree with this. The HD650s have an extremely fast transient response time, at least as fast as my SR-60s, if not faster. This is especially evident when listening to things like guitars and other instruments that are plucked or strummed. I have no idea how they could possibly be described as slow, unless you're talking about some kind of perceptual effect from the bass, or are comparing them to a high-end electrostat or IEM.

 

[catscratch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif Probably why I am keeping the HD580, HD595, and HD650!! Each has their own attributes that do well with certain genres of music.

Yes, that's exactly it. I've been looking for the perfect headphone, and there isn't one (the HE90 comes close but it will be some time before I can reasonably afford one). So, I've instead collected different reasonably priced headphones that work well for different genres and moods, and shine with different recordings. They all have flaws, but they're flaws that I can live with (I think...), otherwise they wouldn't be in my collection.

But... yeah, back to the OP and the whole thread thing...

The HD580 is a good choice. Out of portable amps I'd say the Porta Corda Mk II has a rather good synergy with them, and is very inexpensive. However, my experience with amping Senns is very limited, to take my advice for what it's worth - not much

Quote:

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have no idea how they could possibly be described as slow, unless you're talking about some kind of perceptual effect from the bass, or are comparing them to a high-end electrostat or IEM.

That's precisely what I'm doing. My favorite headphones are electrostats, and they're the standard by which I judge. The 650's aren't overly slow next to many dynamic headphones, but they're very slow next to the SR-404.

There are some dynamics that make them sound slow as well, such as the AKG K340 that recently came into my posession (and to a lesser degree, the Koss A250).

Err... I've hijacked the thread

sorry about that!

 

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

I haven't post anything in a while, but as someone with similar sensitivity to highs, I felt compelled to give my say.

Although you are looking for a can with the least quantity of highs, I know from my own experience that your ears will benefit more from a system with smoother highs. Unfortunately just changing the headphone isn't going to totally solve the problem of harsh highs.

Before I give you a recommendation, let me note some of the headphones you should avoid in order to save from ear pain. dt770 has a horrible balance of bass to midrange to highs. The bass is so overpowering you can't hear the mids, so you may be compelled to turn it up and thats when the highs become peircing. Another can to avoid is the hd580. Although it's sound signature is similar to a hd650, its missing the added dampening of the hd650 and so the treble playback is harsh, and personally I get ear fatigue listening to them. The can with the least amount of highs I have heard is the sony v700. This was also one of the most painful cans for me to listen to because the treble is the harshest I have listened to. In fact, its best to avoid all cans by sony under $4k. Any john grado with bowl pads other then the ps-1's gives me ear fatigue pretty fast. Also the sr80, sr125 and sr325 gives me ear fatigue with any type of pad.

The thing about harshness is, it can't be picked up on a graph, you have to listen to the can before you buy it. If your source is a portable source or a budget cd player, the player will be adding harshness to the playback of your system. In a system like that I would probably go for beyer dt250-80's. They don't have a lot of treble and the treble that is there isn't peircing. The balance of midrange to lows is also very linear in this set of headphones. In a system with a smooth source, grado sr225 or rs-1's with flat pads sound very nice. You wouldn't know it by looking at the headroom graphs, but the rs-1 treble is very smooth. All grados have very revealing and detailed treble so if the downstream components are mucking up the treble, the grados will shred your ears. hd650 would also work, or an hd600 with cardas/olebach replacement cable as each has smoother treble then the stock cable. The moddifed akg k340's I have listened to also had smooth and gentle treble.

I hope this helps.

Biggie.

 

[SoundGoon]

I don't know if anyone has yet, but I would highly recommend the Koss PRO 4AAT if you're looking for a can that's not very bright. These are very warm, almost too much so for me. There is not a lot of treble presence at all, which might make them something for you to look into. I'd say give 'em a go, they're not too expensive and I'm sure that someone would buy them from you if they turned out to not be your cup of tea. Best of luck and good listening.

 

[tomjonesrocks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've really liked how it sounds out of a Porta Corda Mk II, for instance.

Interesting. The only Corda amp I have heard HD650 out of was the Headfive--and I thought it really left something to be desired. Veil city.

Others may disagree, of course...

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sorry to continue the derailment, but I have to severely disagree with this. The HD650s have an extremely fast transient response time, at least as fast as my SR-60s, if not faster. This is especially evident when listening to things like guitars and other instruments that are plucked or strummed. I have no idea how they could possibly be described as slow, unless you're talking about some kind of perceptual effect from the bass, or are comparing them to a high-end electrostat or IEM.

x2

 

[Snacks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotoriousBIG_PJ /img/forum/go_quote.gif Although you are looking for a can with the least quantity of highs, I know from my own experience that your ears will benefit more from a system with smoother highs. Unfortunately just changing the headphone isn't going to totally solve the problem of harsh highs.

Bingo!

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotoriousBIG_PJ /img/forum/go_quote.gif The thing about harshness is, it can't be picked up on a graph, you have to listen to the can before you buy it. If your source is a portable source or a budget cd player, the player will be adding harshness to the playback of your system. In a system like that I would probably go for beyer dt250-80's. They don't have a lot of treble and the treble that is there isn't peircing. The balance of midrange to lows is also very linear in this set of headphones. In a system with a smooth source, grado sr225 or rs-1's with flat pads sound very nice. You wouldn't know it by looking at the headroom graphs, but the rs-1 treble is very smooth. All grados have very revealing and detailed treble so if the downstream components are mucking up the treble, the grados will shred your ears. hd650 would also work, or an hd600 with cardas/olebach replacement cable as each has smoother treble then the stock cable. The moddifed akg k340's I have listened to also had smooth and gentle treble.

-Balance, HD 650's have a lot of that for sure.

I would say if you cannot afford them now, then I would definately save up for them. Also, I have to agree with lots of others: 650's do not sound "veiled", "bassy" nor "coloured"...

However, they do have these qualities:
-Non-fatiguing highs
-Smooth highs
-Good bass (not overwhelming)

If you cannot afford to wait and save up for the HD 650's, you may be able to find a good deal on a used HD 600. But, like biggie pointed out earlier, your whole system has to gel and be geared correctly.

 

[Moonwalker]

After looong time of reading these forums, my reply today!

The least bright cans for me are probably Sony MDR-F1's.

Bye
Moonwalker