[GLowaslike]

Hello,
 
Just getting started with the whole audiophile thing and so far i am really enjoying it. So far, i recently got my very first cans the K7XX. the following week my O2 amp/dac came together with my DT 770 250ohm. now over the weekend i the the magni2/modi2 stack from schiit. got my Tidal subscription and again in the marketplace for something new,......again. Now i am starting to real about balance vs unbalanced output, multi bit vs delta sigma stuff and also planar magnetic stuff. Think the big question now is where to next? i got my O2 odac set-up with my audioengines A2 and hardly use it for my headphones so i am using the stack primarily to power both my cans. any input would be of great help. thank you head fi community.

 

[Durza]

I would consider myself to be a bit of a mid-fier. If you are looking for something new, planars are the way to go in my opinion. I might get slammed for my opinion, but certain things like multi bit dacs and some of that super high-end stuff simply doesn't add up. Your set of dacs and amps are perfectly fine for the cans you have. Unless you plan on buying endgame 1000$ plus cans, you simply won't get much use out of a 500$ dac or amp. I have demoed endgame gear and honestly, the headphones are what make the difference, not the amp(unless it is tube driven) and certainly not the dac. All dacs should sound the same, a dac's job is to accurately reproduce sound, not color it.
Back to headphones, I personally have loved every planar can I've heard, those being one from the audeze lcd series, and el8 series, as well as the fostex txxrp's both modded and unmodded. If I were you I would seriously look into some planar cans. Companies to look at are fostex for entry level/diy, and hifiman/audeze for mid level all the way up to endgame.
I am not totally sure about balanced vs. unbalanced amping, some people swear by it, and some others say it is completely bogus. Next up is tubes! Don't buy a hybrid tube amp! If you want tubes, go all in and buy something that is full tube. As far as I know, and from my experience, hybrid tubes often have negligible sonic differences from solid state amps. Hope that I could help! Feel free to ask any questions.

 

[Stillhart]

  Hello,
 
Just getting started with the whole audiophile thing and so far i am really enjoying it. So far, i recently got my very first cans the K7XX. the following week my O2 amp/dac came together with my DT 770 250ohm. now over the weekend i the the magni2/modi2 stack from schiit. got my Tidal subscription and again in the marketplace for something new,......again. Now i am starting to real about balance vs unbalanced output, multi bit vs delta sigma stuff and also planar magnetic stuff. Think the big question now is where to next? i got my O2 odac set-up with my audioengines A2 and hardly use it for my headphones so i am using the stack primarily to power both my cans. any input would be of great help. thank you head fi community.

 
You have a whole lot of options open to you right now, which is always fun.  At your budget range, the biggest bang for the buck will be new headphones.  Amps and DACs do make a difference to the sound; the poster above stated that DACs shouldn't color the sound and that's all good and well in theory but much harder in practice.  The same goes for amps and headphones and cables, btw.  If you're not going flagship on a given component, you'll have to accept that it'll have tradeoffs in sound reproduction and you have to decide what you like and what you're cool with losing.
 
As an example, I would rather have a cheap R2R DAC like a Modi MB, which isn't the most resolving, that a really nice Delta-Sigma DAC like the Auralic Vega, which is uber detailed.  That's because the weaknesses of D-S bug me.  Many people would disagree with me on this point and many would agree.  You have to figure out what works for you.  You can get into R2R/Multibit for $250 with a Schiit MMB or even cheaper if you go vintage and ebay.  It's not that expensive to try anymore and you can see if you really like it.  But I'd recommend you try it after working on your headphones and maybe even amp.
 
Sorry for the digression.  Headphones = best bang for the buck right now.  The differences in sound from amp to amp or DAC to DAC is much more subtle and if your headphones aren't really good, you might not even be able to notice the differences.
 
As to the whole planar thing, they're awesome, I love em.  But at their best, they're no better than the best dynamics.  They're just a different presentation.  I have a Ether C Flow and a HD800 so I don't play favorites.    Maybe pick up a cheap planar like a HE-400i to get the feel for it.
 
The whole balanced thing is something that gets blown out of proportion by people who don't understand it.  In short, many times people will compare the balanced port to the SE port on the same amp and come away amazed at how much better "balanced" sounds.  Actually, what they're hearing is 4x the power from the balanced port.  If you were to compare a similarly powered SE amp to that balanced port, you'd hear that SE is more than capable of holding its own.  It's simply a matter of how well the amp is designed.  So my advice:  look for the best amp in the price range regardless of whether it's balanced or not.
 
What's your headphone budget?  Some cheap planars that are very good:  HE-400i, Audeze Sine, ZMF Vibro mk 2, even a raw T50rp mk3 isn't bad.  Some non-planar headphones worth trying that are a step up from what you have:  HD600/650, DT1770/1990, etc etc.  I can think of more if you give me a better price target.

 

[Durza]

I fully agree with Stillhart. He is totally correct, it is simply my opinion that a DAC shouldn't color sound. The fact is that everything colors sound, I'm just trying to say that a 200 dollar set of cans is still a 200 dollar set of cans even if you have multibit, and a 800 dollar schiit amp. You won't see huge differences if you switch from a 200 dollar schiit stack to a 1000 dollar one unless you have higher end headphone. I can say with certainty that with my old k7xx's the difference between my 200 dollar schiit stack, my hybrid tube amp, and my portable dac/amp solution, and an smsl amp I had for a week were minimal. Maybe my ears aren't the best, but I could only tell my hybrid tube amp apart from the magni 2 when doing a fast a/b test, and the differences between an smsl amp that cost 60 dollars and my magni were even less apparent.. The differences were noticeable but if you just plugged me into one or the other without a back and forth, I wouldn't know which one i was hooked up to. This isn't a great example because the two amps are in a very similar price range, but like i said before, the differences are in the headphones. You will definitely hear a difference when you use higher end headphones, but I can be certain that switching between dacs(and sometimes amps) will have a very significantly smaller effect.
If I were you, I would buy some planar headphones, if I had to pick between the lcd's that I demoed, and the hd800 that I demoed I wouldn't know which to choose. They were both clearly amazing and an easily noticeable step up from my current nicest headphones, but in different ways. If you haven't heard any planars before, you simply need to try them. The speed in the bass on my planars has me addicted!

 

[GLowaslike]

Thank you Stillhart and Durza for the very insightful ad thorough explanation of where i am at with this whole audiophile games we play!!!! really appreciate it. I just picked up some Audeze ELL-8's for 450 new and i couldn't  be more happier. kinda puts my K7XX to shame but im loving the planar sound so far. from my Schiit stack i think i am eying the Liquid Carbon from Cavali and be done with it.......for now. over the month i have spent well unde $1800 on every thing a have right now. Let me know if picking up the cavali is worth it for the price since they are claiming that the amp is on its final run.

 

[Durza]

Great choice! I loved the el8's when I demoed them! My personal next steps might be something in that range. I'm thinking skipping the hd600's and going to the hd700's. Although I first need to wait or the new monoprice planars to come out, they definitely have an audeze look to them!

 

[Stillhart]

Great choice! I loved the el8's when I demoed them! My personal next steps might be something in that range. I'm thinking skipping the hd600's and going to the hd700's. Although I first need to wait or the new monoprice planars to come out, they definitely have an audeze look to them!

 
The HD600 and HD700 are very different headphones.  If you've done your research, you'll know the HD700 is much more polarizing than the 600.  I personally got a fantastic deal on the 700 one year on Black Friday and was really hoping to like them.  Unfortunately they were not for me and I had to sell them.  There is a treble spike that I found too annoying to deal with.  
 
As to the Monoprice stuff, they tend to rip off a lot of other people's designs.  Some are licensed (e.g. the Fiio E09 imitation), some are not (e.g. the Audioquest Dragonfly 1.2 ripoff).  I'd be careful of supporting them because I'm not a fan of stealing other people's IP.  YMMV of course, just letting you know in case you didn't.
 

  Thank you Stillhart and Durza for the very insightful ad thorough explanation of where i am at with this whole audiophile games we play!!!! really appreciate it. I just picked up some Audeze ELL-8's for 450 new and i couldn't  be more happier. kinda puts my K7XX to shame but im loving the planar sound so far. from my Schiit stack i think i am eying the Liquid Carbon from Cavali and be done with it.......for now. over the month i have spent well unde $1800 on every thing a have right now. Let me know if picking up the cavali is worth it for the price since they are claiming that the amp is on its final run.

 
I am not a fan of the EL-8 personally, but I'm glad you're enjoying them.  I understand they've revised them since I last heard them and they're much improved.
 
The Liquid Carbon will be a notable step up from the Magni 2 and I happen to think it's the best amp you can get for its price (my opinion, obviously).  I'm using one as we speak and I love it.

 

[Durza]

I don't have any issue with monoprice, they sell nice products and I have no problems with the fact that their products are similar to others, although I don't understand how the monoprice DAC amp is a ripoff since the fiio didn't have a DAC. Taking a design and making it more affordable is fine as long as they aren't breaking any laws when they reverse engineer something.I don't know all that much about the hd700, but my experience with one of the 600s was simply boring. I will obviously read into it more before I buy one.

 

[GLowaslike]

If I buy the liquid carbon, would the dac I have now suffice? Or do I need to buy another high end DAC?

 

[Stillhart]

If I buy the liquid carbon, would the dac I have now suffice? Or do I need to buy another high end DAC?

 
It would suffice.  There's room for improvement, of course, but the Modi is fine.  Something like the Modi MB will give you a noticeable improvement in tonality and the Chord Mojo will give you that plus much improved resolution.  IMHO the Mojo+LC is a value powerhouse and impossible to beat for the money.
 
Regarding Monoprice, reverse engineering things like the Dragonfly IS illegal in countries with strong patent protection.  In China, where they do the ripping off, it's not illegal.  Given that the legal status of stealing someone else's idea is a bit grey depending on where you live or produce the item, I think it comes down to the intent of the law... aka a moral question.  

 

[GLowaslike]

Liquid carbon it is!!!! ThNks guys is the mojo chord really worth it?

 

[Stillhart]

I've been using a DAC-19 (~$850) for over a year at this point and I've been hard pressed to find anything I like better near its price point.  The Gumby was very good but a lot more expensive and not clearly better (to my ears).  I recently picked up a Mojo, having heard it once or twice before, and I've had a chance to really compare it to my DAC-19 at home with my music and gear.  I must say, the hype is real.  This little thing is cheaper than the DAC-19, it's portable and it supports DSD... and it sounds very very close to the DAC-19... close enough that I think I'd have a hard time picking it out in a blind test right now.
 
So yeah, IMHO, the Mojo is the real deal and an easy recommendation for its great sound at the price and supreme versatility.  Honestly, the LC+Mojo performs at a place where you'd have to spend a LOT more to beat the performance appreciably.  It could be endgame for lots of folks. 

 

[Durza]

 
 
Regarding Monoprice, reverse engineering things like the Dragonfly IS illegal in countries with strong patent protection.  In China, where they do the ripping off, it's not illegal.  Given that the legal status of stealing someone else's idea is a bit grey depending on where you live or produce the item, I think it comes down to the intent of the law... aka a moral question.  

So did audioquest do anything about the dragonfly? I feel like audioquest would be able to sue if monoprice really was stealing it. How possible is it that monoprice paid for the rights to use their design? Other possibility: it wasn't audioquest's design in the first place and it was some chinese design that they were paying to have their logo stamped onto. I honestly have no clue what the actual story is, but i feel like audioquest would definitely take legal action if something like this happened. 

 

[Stillhart]

  So did audioquest do anything about the dragonfly? I feel like audioquest would be able to sue if monoprice really was stealing it. How possible is it that monoprice paid for the rights to use their design? Other possibility: it wasn't audioquest's design in the first place and it was some chinese design that they were paying to have their logo stamped onto. I honestly have no clue what the actual story is, but i feel like audioquest would definitely take legal action if something like this happened. 

 
Of course they did --  there's a reason Monoprice no longer sells it.  I spoke with AQ about it at CES a few weeks back.

 

[Durza]

Holy cow! That is certainly shady. Hopefully they learned their lesson I guess because the m1060 looks like it might be a real winner.