what sound signature is best for modern music(pop,edm etc.)?
Oct 25, 2014 at 9:23 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 16

redbean

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I mainly listen to pop music, but I listen to other genres from time to time too. What sound signature is a good all-rounder while being good for pop music? Can anyone recommend me one for about $150? If an amp is needed I'll get it too. Thanks!
 
Oct 25, 2014 at 9:38 AM Post #2 of 16
I mainly listen to pop music, but I listen to other genres from time to time too. What sound signature is a good all-rounder while being good for pop music? Can anyone recommend me one for about $150? If an amp is needed I'll get it too. Thanks!

Honestly, look into the Logitech UE 6000, it has two modes a passive mode and "active mode" the active mode activates the UE 6000 built in amp and gives you a very fun V shaped sound, the passive mode is more balanced
 
when I had it, I like passive mode for jazz, classical and the like and I liked ACtive mode for Hip Hop, Techno and Dub Step 
 
Oct 25, 2014 at 11:15 AM Post #3 of 16
I mainly listen to pop music, but I listen to other genres from time to time too. What sound signature is a good all-rounder while being good for pop music? Can anyone recommend me one for about $150? If an amp is needed I'll get it too. Thanks!


Your particular listening preferences for headphone types--whether your like bright headphones, or bassy headphones--will make a lot of the difference over what headphones will work well for the music you listen to.

Do you currently have any headphones? What do you like/not like about their sound? Have you heard any headphones you like/don't like?
 
Oct 25, 2014 at 11:38 AM Post #4 of 16
Your particular listening preferences for headphone types--whether your like bright headphones, or bassy headphones--will make a lot of the difference over what headphones will work well for the music you listen to.

Do you currently have any headphones? What do you like/not like about their sound? Have you heard any headphones you like/don't like?


I currently own a soundmagic e10 IEM. I'm not really sure what I like about them, but they just sound noticebly better than my bundled iems. However, what I don't like is the vocals. Something about them just doesn't sound very good. Not sure if this is the correct word, but I think its not exciting(?)enough. As for the bass, they are OK. Anything slightly more would be good, but certainly not less. Generally, they don't make me feel as pumped up when listening to poppy songs than I'd hoped. They sound better on slower tracks like Coldplay's old stuff. I'm sorry if my description sucked but I don't really know the audiophile terms and stuff...
 
Oct 25, 2014 at 11:40 AM Post #5 of 16
Honestly, look into the Logitech UE 6000, it has two modes a passive mode and "active mode" the active mode activates the UE 6000 built in amp and gives you a very fun V shaped sound, the passive mode is more balanced

when I had it, I like passive mode for jazz, classical and the like and I liked ACtive mode for Hip Hop, Techno and Dub Step 


They look pretty OK. I'll take a look at some reviews around as well as compare them to other headphones in this price range before deciding. Thanks man.
 
Oct 25, 2014 at 12:08 PM Post #7 of 16
what sound signature is best for modern music(pop,edm etc.)?

 
Personally, that would be "as flat as possible, with no glare." You'll hear as close as to what was recorded if not intended as well, regardless of genre or era. If there's any part that can be (or left) modified, a little bit of wideband bass boost is acceptable, given the differences between speakers and headphones. Basically, look at the response graphs of the likes of HD600 and the K701. 
 
More on that need for a little bit of bass boost. You might notice a lot of threads asking for "more bass," if not also questioning why those that have "little" bass (actually flat, but not totally - most of the better cans out there have a tipped up bass response over the midrange) are considered "hi-fi" if the music has a lot of bass. The problem there is how people understand how "hi-fi," recording, and their own biases/reference works. Let's take EDM as an example. The DJ's recording monitor does not necessarily sound the same as the speaker set-up in da club. In his own studio the DJ might actually use flatter monitors; or, he might be using monitors with a tipped-up response (like the better headphones described above), and so does not put in more volume on the bass instrument. In da club, which might not even have the same DJ as the host playing, the acoustic environment is nothing like a studio, you need the music LOUD so they'd be dancing (and thirsty, having fun, etc) in order to sell drinks; also, a heck of a LOT more bass to drive up the beat, getting them to dance and have fun, buying drinks and possibly ecstasy pills also (look up car bass set-ups on YouTube and you'll see why they're related). The problem is whether the person on the thread here pops pills or not is that the club set-up or his friend's Escalade is his reference for how a playback system should do bass. On a speaker system with a subwoofer even with a reasonably flat response can have enough bass to tickle your arm hairs as long as it's in the recording. That just doesn't happen with headphones, but the excessive amounts of bass that would usually give non-EDM/crunk fans a headache compensates for the most part.
 
It's the same thing with non-EDM listeners, just to a lesser degree. If your reference for the real music is a small venue where every kick on the bass drum can be felt on your chest, even from the bar across the hall from the stage, and then your reference for the playback quality is your dad's reference system with tower speakers with dual bass drivers on top of the midwoofer and tweeter that can also reproduce that "kicking" sensation, then you would look for a louder THUMP! on the bass drum on the headphones, sometimes even if it already affects the soundstage depth and puts it on the same point along the Z-axis as the vocals, if not in front. Similar thing with some car systems I've listened to - others have their subwoofer-midwoofer crossover setting too high that even a time alignment processor (delays the closer speakers to give the farther speakers time to reach your ears all at the same time) can't help how the bass drum THUMP! sounds "accurate" tonally as well as for that kick to the chest sensation, except it's coming from behind, which in reality doesn't happen when the rest of the drums are in front.
 
--------------
 
Now, the real problem is that there is no perfect transducer that has an absolutely neutral 20hz to 20khz response, let alone one that's affordable. Sound signature really isn't a "specialty" as the term implies, but a compromise - if we can't make it totally flat, let's go for this kind of response curve at least - that the manufacturer prefers or can live with. Still, the same idea applies - as neautral as possible but with a little bit of wideband bass boost around 60hz to 150hz. You'll notice how generally the most popular headphones fall into that category actually as far as the graphs are concerned, but certain differences in certain regions of the response curve can make for what subjectively gets classified into different sound signatures.
 
Oct 25, 2014 at 1:42 PM Post #9 of 16
Personally, that would be "as flat as possible, with no glare." You'll hear as close as to what was recorded if not intended as well, regardless of genre or era. If there's any part that can be (or left) modified, a little bit of wideband bass boost is acceptable, given the differences between speakers and headphones. Basically, look at the response graphs of the likes of HD600 and the K701. 

More on that need for a little bit of bass boost. You might notice a lot of threads asking for "more bass," if not also questioning why those that have "little" bass (actually flat, but not totally - most of the better cans out there have a tipped up bass response over the midrange) are considered "hi-fi" if the music has a lot of bass. The problem there is how people understand how "hi-fi," recording, and their own biases/reference works. Let's take EDM as an example. The DJ's recording monitor does not necessarily sound the same as the speaker set-up in da club. In his own studio the DJ might actually use flatter monitors; or, he might be using monitors with a tipped-up response (like the better headphones described above), and so does not put in more volume on the bass instrument. In da club, which might not even have the same DJ as the host playing, the acoustic environment is nothing like a studio, you need the music LOUD so they'd be dancing (and thirsty, having fun, etc) in order to sell drinks; also, a heck of a LOT more bass to drive up the beat, getting them to dance and have fun, buying drinks and possibly ecstasy pills also (look up car bass set-ups on YouTube and you'll see why they're related). The problem is whether the person on the thread here pops pills or not is that the club set-up or his friend's Escalade is his reference for how a playback system should do bass. On a speaker system with a subwoofer even with a reasonably flat response can have enough bass to tickle your arm hairs as long as it's in the recording. That just doesn't happen with headphones, but the excessive amounts of bass that would usually give non-EDM/crunk fans a headache compensates for the most part.

It's the same thing with non-EDM listeners, just to a lesser degree. If your reference for the real music is a small venue where every kick on the bass drum can be felt on your chest, even from the bar across the hall from the stage, and then your reference for the playback quality is your dad's reference system with tower speakers with dual bass drivers on top of the midwoofer and tweeter that can also reproduce that "kicking" sensation, then you would look for a louder THUMP! on the bass drum on the headphones, sometimes even if it already affects the soundstage depth and puts it on the same point along the Z-axis as the vocals, if not in front. Similar thing with some car systems I've listened to - others have their subwoofer-midwoofer crossover setting too high that even a time alignment processor (delays the closer speakers to give the farther speakers time to reach your ears all at the same time) can't help how the bass drum THUMP! sounds "accurate" tonally as well as for that kick to the chest sensation, except it's coming from behind, which in reality doesn't happen when the rest of the drums are in front.

--------------

Now, the real problem is that there is no perfect transducer that has an absolutely neutral 20hz to 20khz response, let alone one that's affordable. Sound signature really isn't a "specialty" as the term implies, but a compromise - if we can't make it totally flat, let's go for this kind of response curve at least - that the manufacturer prefers or can live with. Still, the same idea applies - as neautral as possible but with a little bit of wideband bass boost around 60hz to 150hz. You'll notice how generally the most popular headphones fall into that category actually as far as the graphs are concerned, but certain differences in certain regions of the response curve can make for what subjectively gets classified into different sound signatures.


Thanks for taking your time to reply! That is one long post. Lots of information. I understand what yyou're saying, but why do people complain that flat sounding headphones sound 'dead'?
 
Oct 25, 2014 at 2:28 PM Post #11 of 16
I currently own a soundmagic e10 IEM. I'm not really sure what I like about them, but they just sound noticebly better than my bundled iems. However, what I don't like is the vocals. Something about them just doesn't sound very good. Not sure if this is the correct word, but I think its not exciting(?)enough. As for the bass, they are OK. Anything slightly more would be good, but certainly not less. Generally, they don't make me feel as pumped up when listening to poppy songs than I'd hoped. They sound better on slower tracks like Coldplay's old stuff. I'm sorry if my description sucked but I don't really know the audiophile terms and stuff...


That's good to know. The E10s have a bit of bass emphasis. So something like the UE6000 might be to your liking. Although the UE6000 are a bit dark, which means the treble is recessed.

BTW: If you are new to sound signature terms, check out this glossary: http://www.head-fi.org/a/describing-sound-a-glossary
 
Oct 26, 2014 at 1:50 AM Post #12 of 16
Thanks for taking your time to reply! That is one long post. Lots of information. I understand what you're saying, but why do people complain that flat sounding headphones sound 'dead'?

 
Precisely because of the reference problems and the difference with headphone listening vs speakers, both discussed above. If your reference for natural sound is what drums sound like when you're standing on stage or it's a small venue, also/or a speaker system that isn't neutral, then a neutral headphone putting as little coloration as possible on a recording intended to sound the least like that small venue will sound different. At the same time, even a neutral speaker isn't exactly the same as a neutral headphone in the over all experience, well beyond the size of a soundstage image. A neutral, full-range speaker system can give you that sensation of a kick to the chest when the bass drums are hit, but a neutral headphone won't be able to do that as it fires all the sound directly into your ears.* At the same time,many who have speaker systems invested on fixing the room acoustics (or the room modes work in their preferred coloration), so you deal with less ambient noise that can detract from the dynamic range; by contrast, headphones being what they are - a compromise - the tendency is that people are still dealing with ambient noise on open headphones. Look at how many listen all day for example; I do my listening at 9pm or later, thanks to work as well as for around 6dB less ambient noise.
 
*A neutral IEM can do a bit better in that regard though since it has better isolation, so the bass seems louder/more audible due to less ambient noise
 
Oct 27, 2014 at 11:52 AM Post #13 of 16
Precisely because of the reference problems and the difference with headphone listening vs speakers, both discussed above. If your reference for natural sound is what drums sound like when you're standing on stage or it's a small venue, also/or a speaker system that isn't neutral, then a neutral headphone putting as little coloration as possible on a recording intended to sound the least like that small venue will sound different. At the same time, even a neutral speaker isn't exactly the same as a neutral headphone in the over all experience, well beyond the size of a soundstage image. A neutral, full-range speaker system can give you that sensation of a kick to the chest when the bass drums are hit, but a neutral headphone won't be able to do that as it fires all the sound directly into your ears.* At the same time,many who have speaker systems invested on fixing the room acoustics (or the room modes work in their preferred coloration), so you deal with less ambient noise that can detract from the dynamic range; by contrast, headphones being what they are - a compromise - the tendency is that people are still dealing with ambient noise on open headphones. Look at how many listen all day for example; I do my listening at 9pm or later, thanks to work as well as for around 6dB less ambient noise.

*A neutral IEM can do a bit better in that regard though since it has better isolation, so the bass seems louder/more audible due to less ambient noise


I actually prefer iems mostly because of their convenience, but I heard that headphones have better value for sound quality and they sound more natural because they aren't plugged directly into your ear hole, but they sit outside so the sound needs to travel along your ears before going in, making them sound natural. Ambient noise would not be too much of a problem since I'd be using the headphones in my room most of the time.
 
Oct 27, 2014 at 1:04 PM Post #14 of 16
I actually prefer iems mostly because of their convenience, but I heard that headphones have better value for sound quality and they sound more natural because they aren't plugged directly into your ear hole, but they sit outside so the sound needs to travel along your ears before going in, making them sound natural. Ambient noise would not be too much of a problem since I'd be using the headphones in my room most of the time.


Actually despite the differences in that regard, the end result isn't that far off. While headphones that aren't directly over the ear canals tend to have less of the soundstage issues (even less if they mimic speaker angles), I've found that IEMs that have a generally flat response (no peaks, no deeep valleys) if at least through the midrange (though they might roll off at the top end a bit early) generally do not exhibit the same soundstage issues as headphones directly over the ear canal, despite what one might rationally assume. Of course, all the soundstage is inside the skull, save for certain instruments' passages or riffs, or some back up vocals, that were deliberately recorded far off to the right or left (many of those in Metallica's Black album), with just enough sense of depth to separate the drums from the vocals.
 
As for ambient noise, you might just not be aware that there might be too much in your room. At the very least, try an SPL app in your smartphone or tablet and see if it at least registers below 35dB.
 
 
 
 
Oct 27, 2014 at 10:43 PM Post #15 of 16
Actually despite the differences in that regard, the end result isn't that far off. While headphones that aren't directly over the ear canals tend to have less of the soundstage issues (even less if they mimic speaker angles), I've found that IEMs that have a generally flat response (no peaks, no deeep valleys) if at least through the midrange (though they might roll off at the top end a bit early) generally do not exhibit the same soundstage issues as headphones directly over the ear canal, despite what one might rationally assume. Of course, all the soundstage is inside the skull, save for certain instruments' passages or riffs, or some back up vocals, that were deliberately recorded far off to the right or left (many of those in Metallica's Black album), with just enough sense of depth to separate the drums from the vocals.

As for ambient noise, you might just not be aware that there might be too much in your room. At the very least, try an SPL app in your smartphone or tablet and see if it at least registers below 35dB.


So you're saying headphones don't sound that much different from earphones? I did the SPL test, at night with my fan off its about 30-40.
 

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