[jtizzle]

I am sitting here switching back and forth between these two cans...I am sure this has been noted here before, but if only you could take the bottom of the HD 650's and combine that with the top of the K701's and put that into one headphone, you'd have...

[sigh]

What headphone does this what I am talking about and combines the best attributes of these two headphones? Ultrasone? Audio Technica? There has to be something out there, this can't be that hard. Something that doesn't cost a million dollars, either. I know everyone here thinks it's just hilarious how much all this costs, but I am running out of money. As in, like, wife's about to leave me really running out of money. And don't say the Beyer DT 990's, because they ain't it. I'll be writing a review here directly comparing all three of these headphones which will include an explanation as to why I think the Beyer's don't cut it...

Alternatively, has anyone figured out how to give Senns that clarity and definition in the upper frequencies that they are lacking? Lift the veil, as it were? Cables? Tweaks? Soak them in epsom salt? Drag them behind a car? And supposing you haven't necessarily solved it, but you've moved it in the right direction....what did it?

Likewise, any cable or tweak known to anyone that gives the K701's the ass they seem to need? Or is this a driver issue, and the engineers for each product have made their choice as to what they think sounds good, you can only get so much out of what they start as, and as such, you are basically stuck with the signature sound of each?

 

[Morph201]

darnit! I was going to say dt990s!! grrrrrrrrrrr... stole my thunder!

 

[Exit Pupil]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtizzle /img/forum/go_quote.gif Alternatively, has anyone figured out how to give Senns that clarity and definition in the upper frequencies that they are lacking?

if 650s were any clearer or more defined in the top end i wouldn't have bought them in the first place, and they wouldn't be my favourite can. i would find them too forward. they are absolutely spot on me thinks, for my cheesy little ear canals. IMO, when most people speak of a veil in this can (that they otherwise like), they are commenting on their own high frequency hearing loss (which we all have to some wildly varying degree). some cans act as a virtual hearing aid, boosting the frequencies they require, but others don't.

 

[jtizzle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exit Pupil /img/forum/go_quote.gif if 650s were any clearer or more defined in the top end i wouldn't have bought them in the first place, and they wouldn't be my favourite can. i would find them too forward. they are absolutely spot on me thinks, for my cheesy little ear canals. IMO, when most people speak of a veil in this can (that they otherwise like), they are commenting on their own high frequency hearing loss (which we all have to some wildly varying degree). some cans act as a virtual hearing aid, boosting the frequencies they require, but others don't.

Well, I can appreciate that. I think the Senn's are ok and all things considered I can see why people are really fond of them. But I couldn't disagree more with your analysis. I am fresh off of a nice extended session with the Beyers, and I have the K701's and the HD 650's sitting right here in front of me. Unless my hearing happens to suffer high frequency loss coincidentally every time I put on the HD 650's, I'd say it's more likely the cans, not my ears.

 

[blessingx]

I didn't like the Zu balanced, but single-ended the Mobius cable added to the HD650 everything I missed in the K701.

And gotta disagree with Exit Pupil too. I'm very sensitive to brightness, and like the HD650s speaker-like roll-off, but I think taste (and musical preferences and system synergy) plays a far larger part of this than hearing loss.

 

[Aaron Friedman]

HI,

I am an audiophile for 35 years and do extreme modifications on headphones for personal use (that you cannot get done by outside vendors). I have had the 650 with the cards cable and I have the AKG K701.

All acoustic and most other instruments require a combination of frequencies to properly capture the texture of their resulting sound. It is a combination of frequencies that defines a sound and gives it life and texture. Some high frequencies are needed to even define bass notes. The 650 driver simply cannot properly reproduce the high frequencies. Hence the sound will always tend to be on the dry dark side and thereby not properly color the various textures needed to paint a proper musical picture.

The K701 has the ability to color a musical picture and could have been a much greater headphone. For production purposes sound reproduction was compromised; more specifically the way the driver’s hairline wire is eventually connected to the headphone cable is sonically very problematic. It goes through a few solder joints, wires, nickel poles and gold over nickel driver pole that all told irk havoc on the sound.

To correct this situation requires major surgery. I am not talking just cable upgrade but modifying the driver connection. I went through 6 drivers and 3 k701 as part of the learning process. The end result is the best dynamic headphone I have heard so far.

As to bass, I can get enormous bass by solder and material techniques. However, these are headphones not a disco. Bass should be in proportion to the other frequencies and size of instrument signature of the given sound field. Overwhelming bass upfront right on your ear while all other instruments are projected further out on the sound field soundstage is not what live music sounds like. The bass player is not sitting on your lap and playing right next to your ear while the rest of the band is on stage. Proportionality is needed. Otherwise you have a 650 where the bass takes up most of the volume energy causing a relatively recessed effect for all other instruments and frequencies. This is not a natural result. Undoubtedly you will lose other frequencies as the bass overwhelms all else.

As to some who claim that the 650 has enough high end or does not have to much bass, You need to understand that some systems and/or cables boost certain frequencies in your system. The 650 high end is rolled off and the bottom is boosted. Just go to headphone.com and look at the graph of its frequency response and thats what you will see.

Aaron

 

[Exit Pupil]

ok ... let me rephrase that from 'when most people speak of a veil', to 'when some people speak of a veil'....

cant i exaggerate sometimes!?

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Zu/SD recabled HD650 or D5000/2000 can probably represent the best of two worlds.
Have you heard W5000, or it should be considered a "million dollar" group already?

 

[Aaron Friedman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif Zu recabled HD650 or D5000 is probably the best of two worlds.

Sorry but recabling the 650 may change to a certain extent the frequency balance however, the problem of the higher frequency on the 650 is with the driver not cable. The driver is not engineered in away that it can properly reproduce the higher frequencies. Accenting high frequencies balance with silver cables makes things worse. The textures will not sound natural.

Note that many times recabling changes the sound and makes it less focused rather than better.

 

[lordkelmain]

Add the DT880's to that and you get a bigger fortune (made and spent)

- lk

 

[keanej6]

zu. for sure.

 

[stevenkelby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exit Pupil /img/forum/go_quote.gif if 650s were any clearer or more defined in the top end i wouldn't have bought them in the first place, and they wouldn't be my favourite can. i would find them too forward. they are absolutely spot on me thinks, for my cheesy little ear canals. IMO, when most people speak of a veil in this can (that they otherwise like), they are commenting on their own high frequency hearing loss (which we all have to some wildly varying degree). some cans act as a virtual hearing aid, boosting the frequencies they require, but others don't.

Have you heard 701?

 

[Morph201]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron Friedman /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sorry but recabling the 650 may change to a certain extent the frequency balance however, the problem of the higher frequency on the 650 is with the driver not cable. The driver is not engineered in away that it can properly reproduce the higher frequencies. Accenting high frequencies balance with silver cables makes things worse. The textures will not sound natural. Note that many times recabling changes the sound and makes it less focused rather than better.

x2, I agree 1000%. I auditioned hd650s\zu (after owning K701s), and felt it was unnatural and still lacking. I would be pissed if I spent 300+ on cables and that was the end result. But to each his own, I guess I am a purist at heart and KNOW that a simple cable swap is NOT going to correct the engineering of the drivers, if anything it's going to color the signal and produce unnatural results.

Currently, I am enjoying the Beyers and feel it presents a better picture than the HD650, and it's a STOCK phone.. no recabling required to do that!

Well said Aaron. Please give more detail as to how your "extreme mod" process corrects the signal.

 

[Duggeh]

If you tried to combine the aspects you want from both of these headphones you would lose what it is you lke about them both. It is the difference in one area of tonality that makes another area sound the way it does. If you stick the K701 high mids and highs on to the HD650, the HD650 wouldnt sound the same in the bass anymore, vice versa for the the HD650 bass on the K701.

 

[yossi126]

you'll have a bad fortune
because if you blend perfection (K701) with rubbish (HD650) you'll get
something like Bose.

Give an opportunity to DT990, they do exactly what you are looking for.