[Lindholdt]

I have the option to compare DACs under pretty good conditions, as I'm able to switch between then instantaneously without interrupting the music.
Volume matched, I'm having a very hard time hearing any difference at all between the internal DAC in the Fiio R7 (ES9068AS) and my SMSL DO100 (2*ES9038Q2M). I have tried quite a few times now, but if I'm being honest with myself, I just can't hear a difference.
I feel tonality and sound stage stays the same.
But I see some mentioning that you need to know what to listen for, when listening for minor changes.
Any pointers to what part of the sound I should be hearing differences?

 

[msing539]

What's the rest of the setup? Which headphones are you listening with?

 

[szore]

For me, ESS DACS have a silver liquidity to them. AKM DACS are more 'analogue' sounding with better texturing, and the R2R dacs probably have the most 'natural' sounding tonality, that also is analogue sounding with great texture.

 

[chesebert]

I have the option to compare DACs under pretty good conditions, as I'm able to switch between then instantaneously without interrupting the music.
Volume matched, I'm having a very hard time hearing any difference at all between the internal DAC in the Fiio R7 (ES9068AS) and my SMSL DO100 (2*ES9038Q2M). I have tried quite a few times now, but if I'm being honest with myself, I just can't hear a difference.
I feel tonality and sound stage stays the same.
But I see some mentioning that you need to know what to listen for, when listening for minor changes.
Any pointers to what part of the sound I should be hearing differences?

Take your cans and amp to a dealer and ask to demo their $20k+ dac (doesn‘t matter the tech or brand). You can figure out dac differences within seconds and you don’t need to know what to listen for.

 

[Lindholdt]

What's the rest of the setup? Which headphones are you listening with?

Of course, forgot that: The HE1000 Stealth and the Roger amplifier. Will give the Violectric V200 a try as well.

Read a DAC review by JA from Stereophile. He goes through a series of comprehensive criteria for measuring DACs.

Thanks, will check that out

Take your cans and amp to a dealer and ask to demo their $20k+ dac (doesn‘t matter the tech or brand). You can figure out dac differences within seconds and you don’t need to know what to listen for.

Sure, but if it it this obvious for you to notice, could you give me any pointers? I was hoping that I did not need to spend 20K+ to hear a difference.

@szore Nice description, thank you. Anything related to sound stage that should be easy to spot? Also, so you think most ESS dacs sound similar?

 

[omni94]

Hey Lind, I'm in the same boat.. After trying so hard to notice a difference, I usually end up classifying it as placebo.

So take this with a grain of salt..

I currently have the Topping E70 with the 9038 Chip and the Jotunheim 2 with the 9028 Chip. Between these two, I think that the E70 is more resolving, more snappy too.

The biggest change that I noticed with regards to DACs is when I was using a 15 euro DAC and then changing over to the E70.

These past two months I've got the itch for upgrading, since I'm waiting for a set of stabilized Atriums, so I went ahead and ordered an Audio-GD R1 too, to go along with the Cayin HA-3A.

Should I notice a difference, between the E70 and a proper R2R DAC, I'll let you know haha. Its currently sitting at UPS, so should be with me on Tuesday.

 

[chesebert]

Of course, forgot that: The HE1000 Stealth and the Roger amplifier. Will give the Violectric V200 a try as well.

Thanks, will check that out


Sure, but if it it this obvious for you to notice, could you give me any pointers? I was hoping that I did not need to spend 20K+ to hear a difference.

@szore Nice description, thank you. Anything related to sound stage that should be easy to spot? Also, so you think most ESS dacs sound similar?

You will notice an increase in sound quality. Honestly just read some reviews or use the scorecard from my impressions somewhere here.

 

[baneand]

You will definitely notice small difference in sound presentation (not quality), but only way to figure out if that difference is better for you is to listen. Unfortunately price doesn't tell that you will receive the "improvement" in sound quality. I usually (not always) call it sidegrade in one way or another. And you cannot hear it by quick comparing devices for couple of minutes, you need to spend few days of listening to variety of your favorite tracks on each of them and decide if you like it or not.

 

[Lindholdt]

Hey Lind, I'm in the same boat.. After trying so hard to notice a difference, I usually end up classifying it as placebo.

So take this with a grain of salt..

I currently have the Topping E70 with the 9038 Chip and the Jotunheim 2 with the 9028 Chip. Between these two, I think that the E70 is more resolving, more snappy too.

The biggest change that I noticed with regards to DACs is when I was using a 15 euro DAC and then changing over to the E70.

These past two months I've got the itch for upgrading, since I'm waiting for a set of stabilized Atriums, so I went ahead and ordered an Audio-GD R1 too, to go along with the Cayin HA-3A.

Should I notice a difference, between the E70 and a proper R2R DAC, I'll let you know haha. Its currently sitting at UPS, so should be with me on Tuesday.

Would love to hear your opinion about the Audio-GD R-1, as this was at the very top of my shortlist until I got my tube amplifier. Still very curious about it though
I thought I could hear a difference as well, but now that I can switch instantaneously between them, I just can't hear a difference, and think what I heard before must have been down to placebo.

 

[Lindholdt]

You will definitely notice small difference in sound presentation (not quality), but only way to figure out if that difference is better for you is to listen. Unfortunately price doesn't tell that you will receive the "improvement" in sound quality. I usually (not always) call it sidegrade in one way or another. And you cannot hear it by quick comparing devices for couple of minutes, you need to spend few days of listening to variety of your favorite tracks on each of them and decide if you like it or not.

While I haven't spent a few days, I have gone for hours with one and then switched. I just think I should be able to hear it straight away, when I can switch without interrupting the music, shouldn't I?

 

[baneand]

I thought so to but it all depends on the music and previous gear mental burn-in, at least from my experience - when you think about it, there should be difference on many levels - for example maybe the bass is biggest difference and few of the tracks you listen to don't present everything correctly in that region, maybe imaging or instrument separation cannot be immediately noticed on electronic produced tracks, maybe the mastering is not the best on the tracks you tried at first, etc.

 

[Raketen]

I think there's maybe some benefit to more longitudinal testing - IIRC might have been with one of the Big Sound innerfidelity tests they found people could more consistently guess correctly when it was gear they were familiar with- might be misremembering that though (pretty sure it was with amps rather than DAC as well, also not sure how rigorous the tests were or how significant the effect was).

Though personally I find my hearing is so variable that it's rather difficult to draw any kind of conclusion, even when I think there might be some difference.

 

[Lindholdt]

I'll try some longer tests over the next few days. I've been using the setup with the SMSL for quite a while though, so I would think that I'm quite used to that.
I'm switching to the Violectric amp as well, so I don't have any tubes on the signal chain.
The plan is to order a higher tier DAC during the coming weeks, and hear if I can hear anything different with this.

@Raketen
That's my experience too, my hearing seems to change based on many things. I always try to do critical listening as early as possible, as I feel I have "fresh" ears in the morning.
I must admit, when the difference is this hard to detect, my motivation to get a more expensive and "better" DAC is dwindling...

 

[richie60]

Would love to hear your opinion about the Audio-GD R-1, as this was at the very top of my shortlist until I got my tube amplifier. Still very curious about it though
I thought I could hear a difference as well, but now that I can switch instantaneously between them, I just can't hear a difference, and think what I heard before must have been down to placebo.

Deffo interested too in the R1 NOS, but a new contender in the same price range is soon to be released- the Holo Audio Cyan 2.

 

[szore]

Of course, forgot that: The HE1000 Stealth and the Roger amplifier. Will give the Violectric V200 a try as well.

Thanks, will check that out


Sure, but if it it this obvious for you to notice, could you give me any pointers? I was hoping that I did not need to spend 20K+ to hear a difference.

@szore Nice description, thank you. Anything related to sound stage that should be easy to spot? Also, so you think most ESS dacs sound similar?

ESS chips may tend towards the illusion of bigger soundstage because they tend to be brighter (i think), but look at the SP3000, it uses AK DACS and it has amazing soundstage, so in the end it is how the DACS are implemented.
Yes. my limited experience with ESS DACS is they are very smooth and liquid sounding...