[325xi]

So far I found plenty of sonic comparison opinions here and there between Zhaolu vs. Lavry or Benchmark - all three and a couple more are on my shopping list.

What I'm looking now is comparisons of designs - how significant advantage Lavry must have over Zhaolu.

One of the responses I've got is that Zhaolu doesn't have any dedicated dejittering mechanism, unlike DAC1, Lavry, and many more better recognized DACs.

Power supply of Lavry is said to be of industrial "mass market" level, nothing to write home about. Don't know about Zhaolu but doubt it's much better for this kind of price - plz correct me if I'm wrong.

Otherwise both designs look pretty much standard.


Now, what am I missing?




P.S. I visied forum of Dan Lavry, and I'm not going to ask this kind of question there, as I'll get pretty biased opinions. Search there for "Empirical Audio" and you'll get what I mean.

 

[Ori]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 325xi Zhaolu doesn't have any dedicated dejittering mechanism, unlike DAC1, Lavry, and many more

Correct. Read the thread about de-jittering for more detail.
Quote:

Power supply of Lavry is said to be of industrial "mass market" level, nothing to write home about. Don't know about Zhaolu but doubt it's much better for this kind of price - plz correct me if I'm wrong.

You're hereby stand corrected. It's way better.

Quote:

Otherwise both designs look pretty much standard.

The volume control is analog on the Zhaolu and digital on the other two, if that's important to you at all.
Hard to comment about the Lavry output stage. It uses opamps but also has what looks like discrete transistors. Dan Lavry gave a vague answer that I can best guess as opamp output stage. Some people think opamps are great, some don't.
The last aspect you should consider is upgradability. The Zhaolu 2.0 that you buy (shipped to the US) for $160 is OK, but can be improved a lot in an hour or so by anyone that can solder a wire.
Most other units use surface-mount devices, which make it harder to mod for a hobbyist. Cost of "professional" mods is not negligible for any of these units.
The best thing you can do is listen to them side by side, if that's feasible in your location. It would be a real easy decision. If they are equivalent, I'd go with the bargain Zhaolu. However, if to your ears any of the competition sounds significantly better, then you'll have a much easier time justifying the extra dough...

 

[thomaspf]

since I own a Lavry I can contribute a few data points. You probably need to compare this to the Zhaolu.

- Digitally controlled discrete build analog volume control (This attributes the most components)
- Discrete output stages
- Discrete headphone amplifier
- 3 PLL options Wide (AD1896 ASRC), narrow just the reciever, crystal (synchronous reclocking)

Just to be clear. A neutral and balanced sound is not to everyones liking. Many people find the sound dull and that if fine too.

Cheers

Thomas

 

[thomaspf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ori The volume control is analog on the Zhaolu and digital on the other two, if that's important to you at all.

Actually it is analog in all three. The Zhaolu and the DAC1 use a standard pot while the Lavry uses a resistor array that os being switched by digital logic.

Cheers

Thomas

 

[Ferbose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomaspf Actually it is analog in all three. The Zhaolu and the DAC1 use a standard pot while the Lavry uses a resistor array that os being switched by digital logic. Cheers Thomas

To be more precise, I think Lavry uses resistor network controlled by logic-controlled transistor switches (as opposed to mchanical relay switches in some other devices).

 

[Ferbose]

Lavry and Benchmark probably offers better quality control and warranty service than Zhaolu.

 

[JaGWiRE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferbose Lavry and Benchmark probably offers better quality control and warranty service than Zhaolu.

Ah, that's a pretty good point. And the zhaolu (even the original) I believe hasn't been out long enough for us to know if there are any reoccuring problems that appear after a certain period of time, and because of Eddie and everybody being in China, it is a problem for warranty I'de think. It'de cost a lot just to send it and get it back, possibly enough to just buy a newer version assuming a new zhaolu is out.

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ori You're hereby stand corrected. It's way better.

Switching PSU's are not as evil as the audiophile industry would have us believe and there is a fair amount of filtering in there. What is it, exactly, that is so awesome about the Zhaolu's PSU? Quote:

Originally Posted by Ori The volume control is analog on the Zhaolu and digital on the other two, if that's important to you at all.

Ummm, that isn't really true is it? The volume control on the Lavry Black is not done in the digital domain. Quote:

Originally Posted by Ori Hard to comment about the Lavry output stage. It uses opamps but also has what looks like discrete transistors. Dan Lavry gave a vague answer that I can best guess as opamp output stage. Some people think opamps are great, some don't.

The Zhaolu also uses opamps does it not? The opamps that the Lavry uses are one of the few out there that are actually intended for audio use. Quote:

Originally Posted by thomaspf - Discrete output stages - Discrete headphone amplifier

Not exactly. The headphone output is discrete, the analog outs are not. However this is not a fatal flaw by any means.

I can't comment too much as I own the Lavry [love it] and have not heard the Zhaolu. However, I do think that the opinions on here of the Zhaolu should be taken with a HUGE grain of salt. Go to the slimdevices forum to read the other side of the story... not everyone is gushing over this DAC.

 

[thomaspf]

If you need to get a reset in your opinion on the suitability of switching power supplies for high end audio have a look at the large Halcro amps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferbose To be more precise, I think Lavry uses resistor network controlled by logic-controlled transistor switches (as opposed to mchanical relay switches in some other devices).

That is correct. The impementation is different from a mechanical implementation that you can find in a PreSonus Central Station

 

[Ori]

Man, for a moment I thought I'm in the wrong thread. Everybody seems to be talking about McDonalds - and loving it...

I saw recently a British show about a chef trying to change the lunch menu in local schools and I was horrified to see the great resistance of young children towards eating healthy food, which looked decent and I'm sure tasted quite good too. I also recall another "experiment" of a guy that went for 30 days on a fast-food-only diet. Many health indicators went downhill in that short time frame and the fellow actually got sick in the middle of that experiment. Not from food poisoning - just the regular content of that food.
Think of that the next time you swing by any fast food place. Would you eat anything that's only 30% recognizable and 70% unknown/recycled? They have a term for that (no, not crap...). It's called "reconstituted food".
I sort of agree, except for the word "food".
So, after we are all disgusted, time to talk audio...

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox Switching PSU's are not as evil as the audiophile industry would have us believe and there is a fair amount of filtering in there. What is it, exactly, that is so awesome about the Zhaolu's PSU?

Just check out the pics. I counted six different rectifier/regulators. The low-voltage analog is double regulated and the high-voltage analog is discrete regulated. People also don't talk about the discrete EMI filter. It's there too. I wouldn't say awsome, just a minor overkill...
Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox The volume control on the Lavry Black is not done in the digital domain.

It is a resistor ladder through analog multiplexers. Not as clean as an analog pot IMHO. Philodox knows what I mean...
Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox The Zhaolu also uses opamps does it not?

Yes, and I held that against it too. No preferential treatment!
Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox However, I do think that the opinions on here of the Zhaolu should be taken with a HUGE grain of salt.

As any opinion, which is why I suggested to listen to all three. My personal opinion is that Zhaolu 2.0 in stock form is comparable to the DAC-1 and I would not recommended it or the DAC-1. There are people out there who believe that the stock Zhaolu 2.0 is great

and others think that the DAC-1 is great.

Just opinions...

 

[Ori]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomaspf If you need to get a reset in your opinion on the suitability of switching power supplies for high end audio have a look at the large Halcro amps.

Digital noise is just that - noise. Set a shortwave receiver near your computer and see how much shortwave you can hear in that environment.

The same "crap" goes into your DAC's receiver PLL circuit and the local oscillator and it's not improving things, I think.

So all that hard work on de-jittering goes to hell in a heartbeat. To a lesser extent, that same noise also makes its "impression" on your analog output stage.
Audiophiles are so worried about crosstalk at audio frequencies... Try RF... I can justify switching supplies in a high-power amp, but in a low-level device, where all you need is 10, maybe 20 watts?! Sorry, I don't buy that!
Thomas, you should try replacing that cheap supply with a linear supply. I guaranty you'll hear an instant improvement in noise floor and soundstage specificity. That's hardly a secret at this point in the "digital evolution"...

 

[thomaspf]

That explains why Halcro choose to put a switching power supply in their amps when they set out to build the lowest noise floor lowest distortions amps in the world

As with most circuits you can't just look at a technology choice in isolation. It is all about the implementation and the overall system.

Cheers

Thomas

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 325xi What Lavry has that Zhaolu doesn't?

Low DC offset

 

[EdipisReks]

the lavry also seems to do a better job of not letting the magic white smoke out.

 

[JaGWiRE]

Edipe, do you have any experience with that?

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Philodox, can you elaborate on the grain of salt part you mentioned? I have a feeling you are referring to the excessive amounts of credit this dac has, and how it is compared to dacs several times the price, although people may just really be enjoying it because for a cheap dac it does a good job (or atleast in their opinion.) Also, Philo, as you have a lavry, have you heard the zhaolu yet? If not, and if I have one, I'll probably bring it to the hamilton meet. As I'm probably getting the headphone amp module if I order it, we can do a direct comparison to the lavry as you use that for your headphone amp. Balanced vs Balanced

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