[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by joelongwood Of the cans I have, RS-1/RA-1 combo does female vocals like no other. Detailed with just the right amount of warmth.

I would agree..

Quote:

Originally Posted by mega Sennheiser HD650 and ATH-W100..female vocals sound so smooth, lush and effortless with these two cans

Yeah, even when the vocalist was putting an effort into it.

 

[Andrea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beagle Yeah, even when the vocalist was putting an effort into it.

Sorry?

 

[NeilPeart]

1.SR-007
2.HE 90
3.MDR-R10
4.K 340
5.RS-1
6.DT 880
7.HD 650
8.ATH-L3000
9.HP-1000
10.SR-404

 

[Andrea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by saint.panda I find the HD 650 to be the only headphone that gets the lower, mid and upper midrange balanceright.

Then the HD595 does either, even possibly with slightly better 'body'.

 

[elrod-tom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kramer5150 K501

Ditto...best mids and highs I've heard.

 

[KenB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawat I actually like the hd650 more than the cd3000 with femal vocals but i'd like something a bit less dark , more emphasized on the voices and involving. So far it seems that the rs-1 or hd595 would be the best choice. The hd595 is cheap but I wonder if i could find rs-1 under 500 in europe. Also i tend to listen to my headphones for a very long time can you do that with rs-1 ?

Hawat:

I'm curious about your experiences with the HD650 and CD3000, both of which I own and have done a fair amount of A/B comparisons. The timbre of instruments/vocals on my CD3K is noticeably warmer than the HD650, which I actually find to be brighter across the entire sonic spectrum. All this stuff I've read about HD650's being dark/veiled simply does not match my recent testing, when comparing to the CD3K, RS-1, and SA5K (brightest of the bunch!). My HD's are still relatively new and, maybe, they darken up over time. I don't really know much about burn-in but, right now, the timbre (or tone color) of instruments and voices is a touch raised on the HD650's and it's especially noticeable in the bass-mid spectrum.

Is timbre the same characteristic you mean when you use the terms warm, dark, and bright? For example, when A/B switching on identical passages of Wynton Marsalis trumpet concertos with the National Philharmonic, his horn tends to sound more brassy with the HD650 vs. mellow on the CD3K. On a trumpet, timbre is a function of make/model, bore, bell, mouthpiece, and skill of the player. I would classify a flugelhorn (and some cornets) as warm/mellow; whereas, a piccolo trumpet would be shrill/brassy. A silver Bach Strad can sound more or less bright, depending on the player and acoustics, but Wynton's horn (not identified in the liner notes) sounds more natural (meaning live) to me when listening to the CD3K. Do you not find that to be the case with your headphones?

I don't know what "involving" means to you, but if you think that both the CD3K and HD650 are not warm enough, you can skip the SA5K entirely. I'm trying to recall my overall impressions of the Grado RS-1, which I only kept for a short time. I remember that the bass was punchy, but not deeper or more impactful than the CD3K. I also thought it was higher in timbre than the CD3K, so I'm not sure you're going to like it if you already think the Sony's are bright (I do not). I was not a fan of the foam pads and the C-Pads altered the sound so much (worse) that I couldn't keep them on either. I do recall on one especially high pitched reference piece that the upper treble started to sound crackly and distorted on the RS-1's compared to the CD3K or SA5K (clean, pure, pristine). Anyway, I don't particularly remember thinking that the RS-1's were especially warm sounding and they don't have that reputation either.

In terms being enveloped by lush sound and experiencing musical rapture (my meaning of involvement), I still find the CD3K to be my #1 headphone; but, the HD650 is a close 2nd and beats RS-1 and SA5K hands down (IMO!!!). The low end is not quite as impactful as the CD3K, for example, on deep bass drum kicks, but these cans are remarkable in terms of overall presentation. If burn-in is real (I'm still in the "I don't know" camp), then the Senn's can only get warmer over time and may actually catch-up and, possibly, surpass the CD3K's as my favorites. STAX is next on my list to own -- I hope soon.

Other than switching brands to, say AKG, Beyer, or STAX (none of which I have yet tried), I'd say that you may have already found your headphones.

Ken

 

[sean-xenos]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenB Hawat: I don't know what "involving" means to you, but if you think that both the CD3K and HD650 are not warm enough, you can skip the SA5K entirely. I'm trying to recall my overall impressions of the Grado RS-1, which I only kept for a short time. I remember that the bass was punchy, but not deeper or more impactful than the CD3K. I also thought it was higher in timbre than the CD3K, so I'm not sure you're going to like it if you already think the Sony's are bright (I do not). I was not a fan of the foam pads and the C-Pads altered the sound so much (worse) that I couldn't keep them on either. I do recall on one especially high pitched reference piece that the upper treble started to sound crackly and distorted on the RS-1's compared to the CD3K or SA5K (clean, pure, pristine). Anyway, I don't particularly remember thinking that the RS-1's were especially warm sounding and they don't have that reputation either. In terms being enveloped by lush sound and experiencing musical rapture (my meaning of involvement), I still find the CD3K to be my #1 headphone; but, the HD650 is a close 2nd and beats RS-1 and SA5K hands down (IMO!!!). Ken

Hi Ken,

I'm surprised by your experiences with the Grado RS1 and the Senn HD650.
What kind of amp do you use for your headphones?

 

[Andrea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenB If burn-in is real (I'm still in the "I don't know" camp)

Yes it absolutely is, as you're bound to see with your HD650. (although I don't know at what point of it your pair is now)

Enjoy the climax.

 

[stevesurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrea Mmmm, with vocals independently from their sex I think the HD650 is the best one for sheer realism, but I admit having a weakness for the way the HD595 reproduces vocals, with a special magic made of closeness and a velvety and sweet touch...

I have to agree with Andrea here on the HD595s. There's something special going on with the HD595s; the delicate nature of vocals from the Cardigans' lead is really heard on 03:45 No sleep and Lovefool.

 

[KenB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean-xenos Hi Ken, I'm surprised by your experiences with the Grado RS1 and the Senn HD650. What kind of amp do you use for your headphones?

I'll readily admit that my various amps are, perhaps, not up to the level of the headphones. Usually, I play all the cans through a Yamaha RX-E200, using the headphone jack. However, to make sure that amp choice was not affecting my listening comparisons, I also tested them though a Sony receiver, a Denon CD player, and my Mackie mixer -- all using the supplied headphone jacks. My relative experience of the soundstage, timbre, and other dimensions was the same across the various input/power devices, which leads me to conclude that the amp itself is not overriding the sonic characteristic of the headphones when performing direct comparisons using a common source.

I'm not saying that an amp or source cannot take a bright headphone and warm it up somewhat. What I am claiming, just from my own testing, is that if you take three sets of headphones, varying in timbre from dark - warm - shrill, they will behave relatively the same in A/B comparisons regardless of the amp that you select. Once you select just one headphone and move it to various other amps/sources, perhaps its sonic characteristics will change markedly. I haven't tried that because my setup wouldn't make it easy to do, so I don't honestly know. Many other Head-fiers have certainly reported such occurrences, so I am a believer.

Truthfully, I found the Grado RS-1 a bit bright compared to the Sony CD3K's across all of my amp/sources, but less so than the SA5K's, which I would put in the shrill/harsh category.

I have been doing some more A/B testing this morning between CD3K and HD650, esp. concentrating on female vocals (e.g. Natalie Cole). It's really getting tougher to discern differences between these two fantastic headphones. I still slightly prefer the CD3K due to its richness which, I think, comes from a slightly warmer timbre in the bass-mids. There is just a bit more body to the music and lushness in the vocals, but I'm really splitting hairs here. The HD650's are absolutely wonderful headphones and, if my CD3K's suddenly disappeared and no more could be obtained, I would be perfectly content with the Senn's. If Andrea is correct, the Senn's timbre will soften a bit over time, bringing out a richer/warmer/lusher sound, which I particularly enjoy. I don't think they have even 10 hours on them yet.

Ken

 

[Andrea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenB I'm not saying that an amp or source cannot take a bright headphone and warm it up somewhat. What I am claiming, just from my own testing, is that if you take three sets of headphones, varying in timbre from dark - warm - shrill, they will behave relatively the same in A/B comparisons regardless of the amp that you select. Once you select just one headphone and move it to various other amps/sources, perhaps its sonic characteristics will change markedly. I haven't tried that because my setup wouldn't make it easy to do, so I don't honestly know. Many other Head-fiers have certainly reported such occurrences, so I am a believer.

Should it sound helpful, I believe that casual amp-headphone synergy is spot-on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenB If Andrea is correct, the Senn's timbre will soften a bit over time, bringing out a richer/warmer/lusher sound, which I particularly enjoy. I don't think they have even 10 hours on them yet.

Wow, you still have an about 190 hours long climax ahead of you. Though you should be prepared to first hear/feel the sound worsen somehow (in the midrange) for a few dozens of hours, just to subsequently blossom in its utmost splendour...

 

[hawat]

To me the cd3k definitly have a lack of warmth compared to the sennheisers with the G&W T-2.6F I would be tempted to say that even my 497 sounds better with female vocals compared to the cd3k. It may actually be the added treble from this cans that is hiding this warmth.
If you have "no sleep" from the cardigans you will see what I mean.
It feels like the treble from cd3k is adding a slight unnatural metalic edge to her voice, other than that everything in the cd3k has more punch I think that's what makes cd3k still my favorite can for everything else and the hd650 uninvolving to me compared to the cd3k, mind you they still sound very good or i wouldn't keep them

they may also not be fully burned in yet, according to the 200+ hours some headfiers seems to advise for them.

 

[screwdriver]

for female vocals- i like the grado Hp 1000 Hp1 the best......

 

[pandasonic]

If you can find them - the Sony CD1700s are awesome with vocals. The mids are so sweet and smooth.

 

[Duncan]

This is probably one of the hardest questions to answer on Head-Fi, because vocals are what we have most exposure to in the 'real' world so can associate to them that much easier...

For me personally, the RS1 were in great favour for a long time, but towards the end of their time in my 'main rig' the midrange started to feel very lumpy, congealed... and, choked - This is ultimately their coloration creeping in (as various others have mentioned in the past) - something that I had lived with quite happily for 18 months or so, but no more...

My DT880s are much more linear than the RS1 to these ears, yet the DT880s now, with a couple of hundred hours on the clock sound NOTHING like how most people report them to be - My system has made these cans warm, and deep sounding yet still the fastest headphone on the block (short of going down the IEM route)...

Vocals on the most part with the DT880 sound spot on to me with these cans in this set up - yet sound like a complete dogs dinner on my 'secondary' rig,,, thin, scratchy - unbelieveable...

Yet, listening to track three of Edwina Hayes album, I've still to hear better than my well burnt in Sony EX71 and iPod... that is absolutely the best I've heard, just on that one single track, everything lends itself to my old portable rig to allow an euphoric listen

YMMV, System synergy is more critical for this question than for pretty much any other...