[JefferyK]

I am at the end of my rope.

I have a headphone setup that reads really good on paper: Sennheiser HD-650s + Cardas replacement cable + HeadRoom Maxed Out Home amp + Rotel RCD-1072 CDP.

Unfortunately, it doesn't sound very good: little detail, uninvolving, closed, sluggish.

I did a 100-hour break-in marathon a few weeks ago, so I don't think break-in is the problem.

I replaced my snooty custom-made Belden ICs with cheap mass-market AR ICs, and that helped a little bit: The sound is more forward and a little clearer.

Turning the tone setting on the amp to "brighter" helps, but the high frequencies shred my ears.

I'm going to swap my source for a cheap Sony CDP tonight and see what happens. Maybe the Rotel isn't a good match: The sound is quite realistic (i.e., strings sound like strings), but the soundstaging and slight opaqueness may not be a good match with the amp.

I've heard Grados and Sennheisers, and I like both. I think I would love the HD-650s if they didn't sound so friggin' closed. My HD-580s sound way more open when plugged into my NAD integrated.

Ack! Help! This is driving me NUTS. Any advice? experiences? tips?

Jeffery

 

[Kirosia]

Perhaps try a different phone. beyer dt880 might fit your bill, more treble energy and forward. Or you could just stick with the 580 if it does the job (or get a 600, said to be closer to the 580 than the 650). Also, people say the zu mobius is the better cable when it comes to the 650. I've never tried the zu/cardas, but have had the 650 stock and 880.

 

[Yikes]

I believe that you are attempting to fix what is the inherent sonic signature of the 650’s. The RCD-1072 is not a player that I would describe as warm or closed in. Cardas makes good cables, they are however usually on the warmer side of neutral.

I agree that a different headphone might suit you better. As has been said the Beyer DT-880 or perhaps AKG K501, or maybe the new Sony 5000’s would be a better match. I am among the people who feel that the 650’s are sort of dark and dull

 

[Daroid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JefferyK My HD-580s sound way more open when plugged into my NAD integrated.

What happens to the sound of the HD650 when plugged into the NAD headphone jack ? or have you already done this (?)... What about the jack of the RCD-1072 ?

 

[tkam]

I don't think swapping out sources/amps/cables will help you much here it sounds like you just don't enjoy the hd650 sound. I think you'd be better off trying another headphone, ak501 or dt880 might be a good place to start.

 

[Feanor]

I hate to ask: Maybe you are more of a speakers person?

 

[JefferyK]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daroid What happens to the sound of the HD650 when plugged into the NAD headphone jack ? or have you already done this (?)... What about the jack of the RCD-1072 ?

The HD-650s still sounds closed and it loses some of the strengths I can pick up when I plug it into the HeadRoom Maxed Out Home. Meanwhile, the HD-580s sound worse when I plug it into the HRMO: I can hear its weaknesses.

There is no headphone jack on the Rotel RCD-1072 CDP.

Two things I'm going to try tonight:

- Swap out the Cardas cable for the stock cable.
- Loosen the headband to bring the cups further down on my ears.

I've done some searches, and I'm beginning to believe the problem is not the amp or the source. The problem could be the cable---if the Cardas cable has a "warm" quality---or it could be the cans.

Jeffery

 

[JefferyK]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feanor I hate to ask: Maybe you are more of a speakers person?

No!

!

Actually, I bought the setup to replace my speaker setup. I spent 18 months trying to tune my B&W 602.5 floorstanders in my 12" x 16" studio apartment. I tried every type of placement imaginable. When I realized that a quarter-inch change in toe-in changed the tonal balance and that I could never get the tonal balance exactly where I wanted it, I threw up my hands and gave up. The B&Ws are now in my closet.

For years, my primary setup was a pair of Grado SR-80s plugged into a cheap Akai receiver.

I really like headphones, which is why I'm struggling so hard to figure out why the setup I recently bought isn't working out for me.

Jeffery

 

[Daroid]

As you suggested earlier, you should try with another CDP, just to hear if the sound changes. It may sound much worse (different) than the Rotel, but it might show that the HD650 can sound quite different and might change to something you like better. Try the stock cable as the last solution.

 

[Beauregard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JefferyK Unfortunately, it doesn't sound very good: little detail, uninvolving, closed, sluggish.

Hmm... I'm not an audiophile hobbyist and don't know your audio background so I'm not sure if my comments will help.

My new 650/MOH rig sounds exactly the opposite of what you're describing and is markedly better in all regards to the 580/Home setup I've been enjoying for 10+ years.

My first thought on seeing your post is to wonder if there's a defect in the amp or phones. You said you prefer the 580s with your NAD to the 650s with the MOH... have you tried swapping phones and amps to try to isolate your displeasure?

The only adjective you used that makes some sense to me is "closed". The 580s give the impression of more "air", a lighter feel to the top end that some might find preferable to the 650s. But, IMO, the 650s are definitely more detailed throughout the frequency range - more texture to voice and instruments - including representation of the overtones one would hear at the upper end.

Anyway... if you're an experienced audiophile who's sensitive to the effects of cables and sources, then my two cents prolly haven't been overly helpful...

Best,
Beau

 

[Jahn]

If you've hung with Grado for that long, you may want to stay with the same horse. Ditch the Senns and come back to the slam!

 

[Oliver :)]

Hm, maybe too simple to suggest, but did you experiment with the gain control?

Also, try taking the sheet of foam out of the HD-650s cups (easy to do & undo) and see what it does to the closed feeling.

What about power supply? Your setup sounds as though you might have a nice powerstrip & decent AC-cables?

 

[JefferyK]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauregard Hmm... I'm not an audiophile hobbyist and don't know your audio background so I'm not sure if my comments will help. My new 650/MOH rig sounds exactly the opposite of what you're describing and is markedly better in all regards to the 580/Home setup I've been enjoying for 10+ years. My first thought on seeing your post is to wonder if there's a defect in the amp or phones. You said you prefer the 580s with your NAD to the 650s with the MOH... have you tried swapping phones and amps to try to isolate your displeasure? The only adjective you used that makes some sense to me is "closed". The 580s give the impression of more "air", a lighter feel to the top end that some might find preferable to the 650s. But, IMO, the 650s are definitely more detailed throughout the frequency range - more texture to voice and instruments - including representation of the overtones one would hear at the upper end. Anyway... if you're an experienced audiophile who's sensitive to the effects of cables and sources, then my two cents prolly haven't been overly helpful... Best, Beau

It has crossed my mind that there might be something defective with either my amp or my HD-650s. I think it is more likely that the problem is with the amp. I did notice right away that the channels in the amp are reversed. Not sure if that's particularly meaningful. Anyway, I don't know how I can tell for sure that the amp is defective. It has two inputs, I've tried both of them, and they sound exactly the same.

Actually, I don't prefer the HD-580/NAD combo over the HD-650/MOH combo. I like how open the HD-580/NAD combo is, but it has some drawbacks as well.
Both the HD-580/MOH combo and the HD-650/NAD combo are worse than the HD-650/MOH combo. I definitely think the HD-650s are better-quality cans overall compared to the HD-580s.

I definitely hear what you call "texture" with the HD-650s. A real plus with classical. Voices, however, voices sound veiled (this clears up pretty drastically when I switch the amp to "bright"), and I'm not hearing some of the detail on my opera CDs (coughs, footsteps, score pages turning) that my old Grado SR-80s picked up.

The sluggishness I mentioned seems to go away once my MOH has warmed up for 5-10 minutes. Have you experienced this?

These posts have been really good, forcing me to get really specific about my issues with my setup. Keep 'em coming.

Jeffery

P.S. to Oliver: I have played with the gain setting, and I even e-mailed HeadRoom about the preferred setting. I liked the "high" setting, and so did HeadRoom.

 

[JefferyK]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver Hm, maybe too simple to suggest, but did you experiment with the gain control? Also, try taking the sheet of foam out of the HD-650s cups (easy to do & undo) and see what it does to the closed feeling. What about power supply? Your setup sounds as though you might have a nice powerstrip & decent AC-cables?

Power supply: I've pluged the MOH into a wall outlet as well as a Monster HTS-1000. The sound is smoother when plugged into the Monster, with no other noticeable sonic changes.

Jeffery

 

[Feanor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JefferyK The sluggishness I mentioned seems to go away once my MOH has warmed up for 5-10 minutes. Have you experienced this?

Well, then warm them up before listening!

I know warmup is needed with tubed stuff, so I imagine the same can be true to a lesser extent with SS gear. Try leaving the amp on for a few days, SS has no issues as far as I know with continouos use. I think you should try a higher-end grado from someplace that has a return policy (if there are such places), maybe you'd like that sound more?