[OddE]

   
With the benefit of hindsight, those who created the CD actually shot themselves in the foot! Admittedly it took quite a few years for the technology to mature but once it did, that was the end, there's was really nowhere else to go. We can talk about different delivery strategies of that underlying format but unlike all previous formats, we can't talk about any potential improvement without ignoring (or re-defining with marketing) even the theoretical maximum physical limitations of both output transducers and of human hearing itself.

 
-That depends. While I agree that 16/44.1 is sufficient to reproduce a channel transparently, I think a fair case could be made that the two-channel restriction of red book is limiting.
 
Say, the one valid argument for SACDs existence in my book would be the multi-channel capability, which, when properly utilized can make for some quite astonishing realism in playback. (BIS recordings of choral/organ works, I'm looking at you!)
 
I don't think we'll see a new physical media, though - but, say, 5.1 16/44.1 streams ought to find a market.

 

[CanadianMaestro]

   
With the benefit of hindsight, those who created the CD actually shot themselves in the foot! Admittedly it took quite a few years for the technology to mature but once it did, that was the end, there's was really nowhere else to go. We can talk about different delivery strategies of that underlying format but unlike all previous formats, we can't talk about any potential improvement without ignoring (or re-defining with marketing) even the theoretical maximum physical limitations of both output transducers and of human hearing itself. I'm sure at the time, all they were thinking about was the relatively short term. Of how to make something at a reasonable enough cost but with a big enough improvement to get pretty much everyone to eventually buy not only all new equipment but all the old recordings again as well.
 
 
Depends on whose "need" you're talking about? As far as human hearing is concerned the answer is "no" but as far as equipment manufacturers and content distributors are concerned, the answer is "absolutely yes"! In the technology product world, you're either developing new product or you're on the road to extinction. Whether or not consumers can actually hear any improvement and therefore need/want new product is irrelevant, that's what marketing is for, to create the need/want.
 
G

 
Bryston is coming out with a newer model of their already sublime BCD-1 CD player (it's called BCD-3). Improved digital processing, etc. They have no doubts about the longevity of CDs in the marketplace (they also have their best-selling BDP-x digital music player for two-channel audio). For digital file playback from Flac and whatever, the market is saturated with players, portable and otherwise. Not that it's a bad thing, but mfrs need to be smart and try to attract the younger/uninitiated crowd into high-quality audio playback, beyond iTunes, crappy MP3s, and cheap earbuds/portable players. In my view, offering the best of both worlds (CD + non-disc media) is a good thing.

 

[RRod]

Quote:

   
-That depends. While I agree that 16/44.1 is sufficient to reproduce a channel transparently, I think a fair case could be made that the two-channel restriction of red book is limiting.
 
Say, the one valid argument for SACDs existence in my book would be the multi-channel capability, which, when properly utilized can make for some quite astonishing realism in playback. (BIS recordings of choral/organ works, I'm looking at you!)
 
I don't think we'll see a new physical media, though - but, say, 5.1 16/44.1 streams ought to find a market.

 
But DSD was unnecessary for multichannel and today forces me to keep an SACD player around or buy some hackish PS3 in order to enjoy said BIS releases. On that note, BIS has just started releasing newer albums in PCM multichannel for download. I can only hope they start converting the back catalogue of SACD releases into saner formats.

 

[OddE]

 
But DSD was unnecessary for multichannel and today forces me to keep an SACD player around or buy some hackish PS3 in order to enjoy said BIS releases. On that note, BIS has just started releasing newer albums in PCM multichannel for download. I can only hope they start converting the back catalogue of SACD releases into saner formats.

 
-I agree fully; however, if one wants multichannel, one takes whatever formats are available (through gritted teeth, that is.)

 

[CanadianMaestro]

Music thru the air, in malls, public squares, like in the movie, Minority Report. That, I think, may be the wave of future music distribution. Private IEMs tuned to specific freq bands to hear your own pref selections while on the move, and at home. Pay-by-month, or maybe even free, if the libertarians get their way. (Oops, don't Spotify and Tidal do this?)   "Music is a basic human right". Like the air we breathe. We already have cameras on every street corner...this may be the next iterative progression.

 

[Wiljen]

The biggest hurdle to a new high capacity CD standard is that it would not be compatible with all the existing hardware out there.   This would mean a retooling for those who make the CDs,  Those who advertise for the release (Think of all the promo copies that get sent out to radio stations), and all the end-users who now have to justify buying a new device to play that smaller format higher capacity disk.    Unless you can convince one of the big production houses to only release on that new format, people have no reason to move, and they wont.    We've already seen the fact that 5 years on, Blu-ray still hasn't surpassed the market for DVD even though it does have advantages.     SACD was the same issue.  Small catalog and most of it was available on regular CDs too.

 

[RRod]

  The biggest hurdle to a new high capacity CD standard is that it would not be compatible with all the existing hardware out there.   This would mean a retooling for those who make the CDs,  Those who advertise for the release (Think of all the promo copies that get sent out to radio stations), and all the end-users who now have to justify buying a new device to play that smaller format higher capacity disk.    Unless you can convince one of the big production houses to only release on that new format, people have no reason to move, and they wont.    We've already seen the fact that 5 years on, Blu-ray still hasn't surpassed the market for DVD even though it does have advantages.     SACD was the same issue.  Small catalog and most of it was available on regular CDs too.

 
You have Blu-ray audio discs already. It's not a format or media issue, it's a social issue with how people in the main engage with music these days.

 

[Wiljen]

   
You have Blu-ray audio discs already. It's not a format or media issue, it's a social issue with how people in the main engage with music these days.

 
I think you are missing the point.  The penetration of Blu-ray into the market for CD and DVD has not been what anyone hoped for and part of the reason is the lack of benefit perceived by the average person over CD and DVD.  "Why should I buy a new player to do something I can do with what I already have?"   Until a new format can give an answer to that question that convinces the masses to buy, we will continue to plug along with CD and DVD as they offer the biggest possible market to the producers.     LPs are starting to come back into vogue too, but if a company releases music only on a single format its still CD and if a new movie comes out, the studios wouldnt consider not releasing it on DVD because of the size market that would exclude.

 

[RRod]

   
I think you are missing the point.  The penetration of Blu-ray into the market for CD and DVD has not been what anyone hoped for and part of the reason is the lack of benefit perceived by the average person over CD and DVD.  "Why should I buy a new player to do something I can do with what I already have?"   Until a new format can give an answer to that question that convinces the masses to buy, we will continue to plug along with CD and DVD as they offer the biggest possible market to the producers.     LPs are starting to come back into vogue too, but if a company releases music only on a single format its still CD and if a new movie comes out, the studios wouldnt consider not releasing it on DVD because of the size market that would exclude.

 
I'd have to guess that streaming is also a factor in Blu-ray's lack of penetration. Because why even worry about a player at all when I already have one of these computer contraptions hooked up to the intrawebz? I'm saying this is an even bigger thing for music. I still know plenty of people who sit down to watch movies by popping a disc in the player connected to a TV, but I know basically no one who sits down and gives music undivided attention, let alone by using actual physical media. So why would a physical successor to the CD even be a thing except for the audiophile niche, but then can we even call said media a "successor" to the CD, because the CD was a popular format?

 

[Wiljen]

   
I'd have to guess that streaming is also a factor in Blu-ray's lack of penetration. Because why even worry about a player at all when I already have one of these computer contraptions hooked up to the intrawebz? I'm saying this is an even bigger thing for music. I still know plenty of people who sit down to watch movies by popping a disc in the player connected to a TV, but I know basically no one who sits down and gives music undivided attention, let alone by using actual physical media. So why would a physical successor to the CD even be a thing except for the audiophile niche, but then can we even call said media a "successor" to the CD, because the CD was a popular format?

 
I have to agree where popular music is concerned.  Considering most pop music has a life span of months,  why would you want a physical media and the attendant cost and storage requirements if you will have moved on to other things shortly.   Classic recordings, maybe not so much.   (And by Classic, I mean BB King, Elvis, Dizzy, and all the standards).

 

[sonitus mirus]

   
I have to agree where popular music is concerned.  Considering most pop music has a life span of months,  why would you want a physical media and the attendant cost and storage requirements if you will have moved on to other things shortly.   Classic recordings, maybe not so much.   (And by Classic, I mean BB King, Elvis, Dizzy, and all the standards).

 
Classic stuff is simply popular music from the past.  There can certainly be outstanding current recordings that will stand the test of time as well.   I think the type of music that will be purchased in a higher quality media format is more likely to be influenced by genre.  But it is clear that convenience is winning any battle with regards to format.  If the format isn't convenient, it will only survive in a niche market.  

 

[Wiljen]

   
Classic stuff is simply popular music from the past.  There can certainly be outstanding current recordings that will stand the test of time as well.   I think the type of music that will be purchased in a higher quality media format is more likely to be influenced by genre.  But it is clear that convenience is winning any battle with regards to format.  If the format isn't convenient, it will only survive in a niche market.  

 
 
If you can predict what popular music will eventually be deemed classic you are certainly better at it than I am and I would think that less than 1% of any given era becomes truly classic.  Its another term like vintage that is drastically overused.

 

[VNandor]

 Classic stuff is simply popular music from the past.

Do you mean classical music by classic stuff? Because I doubt most people could afford it at the time.

 

[sonitus mirus]

  Do you mean classical music by classic stuff? Because I doubt most people could afford it at the time.

 
I was referencing the post I was replying to in context:
 

   
 Classic recordings, maybe not so much.   (And by Classic, I mean BB King, Elvis, Dizzy, and all the standards).
 

 

[limpidglitch]

Reminds me about one of the music shops I used to frequent, which had a stand labeled "future classics".
While many of the releases found there failed to realize that prediction, a lot of them also did. I picked up my copy of Prodigys Fat of the Land from there, and that's certainly a classic now.