[Zotar]

Hello. I have recently got the urge to upgrade my audio. After all, I listen to music all day from my computer almost so I think it was about time. I've been using Koss Porta Pro for several years and really enjoy their warm sound signature and laid back treble. I've always been sensitive to high frequency sounds. I use my creative E5 soundcard/amp to drive the headphones.
 
Recently I've been and tried some headphones;
 
Sennheiser HD650: Found them to sound ok but a bit boring, maybe it's because of the amp, Bass was lacking in my opinion. Never brought home, only spent an hour with them.
 
Fidelio X2: Sibilant, seemed like there was something wrong with the treble. Returned to store. Great soundstage and bass though. Too bad.
 
HE-400i: I bought these but I may return them in a few days due to a spike somewhere around 4 and 8khz which causes them to be sibilant on some songs and I find the treble just sharp in general so I reach for the EQ alot of the time. It's great for rock and metal with mostly male vocalists but if I listen to some female vocalist with a high pitched voice the treble will hurt my ears. If they didn't have that spike around 4 and 8khz these would be almost perfect in my opinion.
 
I've been looking through frequency response charts of so many headphones now and it seems most hifiman have this spike in the treble. It seems like what I am really looking for is either the Oppo-pm2 or the Audeze LCD-2. They are really expensive. I can save up, the question is, is it worth it? Are there any cheaper options that would fit me just as good? Do I need to spend 500$ more on an amp to actually make them sound good? I seem to like the planar magnetic sound, the bass goes deep, which I really like.
 
Help me make a decision, should I return the He-400i and look to buy an Audeze LCD-2 instead? From reading it seems like Audeze has the sound signature that I am looking for. But for the price I could keep the hifiman and get a good pair of IEMs and possibly another pair of headphones as well...
 
I listen to all kinds of music really except some weird subgenres of electronic music. Mostly rock/metal/electronic and pop are what dominates my playlists.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
Sennheiser HD650: Found them to sound ok but a bit boring, maybe it's because of the amp, Bass was lacking in my opinion. Never brought home, only spent an hour with them.

 

You need an amp with a fairly high voltage output and very low noise floor: Violectric, Meier, Valhalla2 and Lyr2, DV336se, etc. And listen a little bit louder - sometimes the problem isn't the response but noise, both from the amp (at hte very least, you should only hear noise with no music playing at a point in the volume knob well beyond what is loud enough for listening) as well as environmental noise. When I have my fan and A/C running in the warm months here I can barely hear the bass in my HD600.
 

 
Fidelio X2: Sibilant, seemed like there was something wrong with the treble. Returned to store. Great soundstage and bass though. Too bad.
 
HE-400i: I bought these but I may return them in a few days due to a spike somewhere around 4 and 8khz which causes them to be sibilant on some songs and I find the treble just sharp in general so I reach for the EQ alot of the time. It's great for rock and metal with mostly male vocalists but if I listen to some female vocalist with a high pitched voice the treble will hurt my ears. If they didn't have that spike around 4 and 8khz these would be almost perfect in my opinion.

 

Use an EQ. My HD600 is closer to an HD650 than it would normally sound like since I trimmed the 3500hz and 8500hz peaks, and  then trimmed the rest of the treble as well with a low gain, high shelf cut using Neutron Music Player's parametric EQ (I also did a high shelf boost to everything below the -3dB point in the lower region).

 
I've been looking through frequency response charts of so many headphones now and it seems most hifiman have this spike in the treble. It seems like what I am really looking for is either the Oppo-pm2 or the Audeze LCD-2. They are really expensive. I can save up, the question is, is it worth it? Are there any cheaper options that would fit me just as good? Do I need to spend 500$ more on an amp to actually make them sound good? I seem to like the planar magnetic sound, the bass goes deep, which I really like.

 

I have a dynamic driver IEM that sounds a bit more like the HD650 and LCD-2: the Aurisonics ASG-1.3. There's the $200 Fender FXA-2 (Aurisonics Kicker post-acquisition) but AFAIK the upper bass plateau is a bit taller and there's a slightly taller treble spike.

 

[Zotar]

I'll try to learn how to use a parametric EQ and tweak the sound of the he-400i to sound less bright and more warm. Of course it is not included in itunes (I use apple music alot) and I have to pay 2$ extra for a plugin. Lol Apple (or maybe the laugh is really on me for using something provided by Apple). I'll see if it can make me appreciate them more. Using the standard 10 band equalizer built into the soundcard I've already managed to make them sound alot better to me at least. It would be nice to be able to save the extra money for a tube amp and some better IEMs. Too bad everything is so expensive here in Sweden (audio gear usually costs at least 30% more than in the US) and Amazon doesn't ship here ;(

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  I'll try to learn how to use a parametric EQ and tweak the sound of the he-400i to sound less bright and more warm. Of course it is not included in itunes (I use apple music alot) and I have to pay 2$ extra for a plugin.

 

Not sure if that is as good as Neutron's parametric though, this one can do 10 bands and you choose what frequency and Q-factor, plus the curve type (peak at center freq or boost everything "above" or "below"). Also Neutron has a visualized graph of what the adjustment (not the adjusted result) looks like on a graph.

 

  Using the standard 10 band equalizer built into the soundcard I've already managed to make them sound alot better to me at least.

 

If you're on Windows there's a freeware 10-band graphic EQ which at least works on the computer, but your E5 has an EQ that does essentially the same thing. Just trim it at the freqs nearest those peaks. Neutron's EQ doesn't work on Spotify obviously but even Samsung's manual graphic EQ is enough for me. I mostly use Spotify with IEMs though and I have an AdaptSound profile for that. Almost as good as what I get from Neutron.

 
 

  Too bad everything is so expensive here in Sweden (audio gear usually costs at least 30% more than in the US) and Amazon doesn't ship here ;(

 
Save up and get Meier or Violectric. Meier includes shipping in the price also so there's one less to look up when you look at the prices on the website.

 

[Monsterzero]

sounds like you prefer a dark headphone

you can try a pre-fazor LCD-2,or for an even darker headphone look into the AudioQuest Nighthawk. 

 

[crrrddddeeeee]

I feel that the Audeze LCD-2 would be a fantastic headphone for what you are describing. I am the same way with the treble frequencies and all LCD headphones do great with keeping them very controlled from being harsh on the ears. I also really like the HD650's because of their amazing tone but they quite noticeably lacking in details in comparison to the LCD line. Also agreed that a good amp would help the HD650's out a bit, but probably not as good as the LCD-2. The fazor will add more detail and kinda flatten out the sound a bit but the non-fazor LCD's will sound smoother and a bit darker (many say this might sound better for the genres you listen to). 

 

[Zotar]

Thanks for your replies. I will go back to the store in a few days and listen to the Fazor LCD 2 and see what I think. I was really closing jumping on an ebay auction for a pre fazor lcd (first revision) but I didn't really have enough time to read up on what the differences between all the models were and if Audeze's manufacturer warranty would still apply for second hand buyers. I now have my answer from them and appearently they do so I think I am a bit dissappointed I didn't buy it (sold for ~750$ with shipping/VAT tax included). Anyway I was worried with the comfort since that headband looked very uncomfortable (it was the first model without the updated headband).
 
Will try out the nighthawk as well and see what I think at the same time. Didn't even know Audioquest made headphones, thought they mainly made cables and dacs.
 
I still have problems getting over the brightness of the he-400i even after using them constantly for over a whole week. Sounds great with some records but bot so great with others. Very unsure if it's the headphone for me. Which is too bad since it's alot cheaper than the other options out there >_<

 

[emergencylies]

Hey, I'm also looking and have almost the same price range, preference and diverse listening genres. I'm also treble sensitive. I'm not coming from the koss porta pro, but the m50x, which has more bass and treble though (for some reason I find it more tolerable - haven't figured that one out). And I do like treble, vocals, just not in my face. I've tried:
 
Fidelio X2: Sibilant, seemed like there was something wrong with the treble. Returned to store. Great soundstage and bass though. Too bad. Same thoughts. All I heard were symbols.
 
HE400s: I actually find them strangely fatiguing though its not due to sibilance. Something not quite right about how they reproduce certain songs.
 
Fostex 610s: Def the best I've tried so far. But the music was too forward (or quick, not sure whats the right term), not laid back. I'm looking for something in between. Had a hard time with the trebles being so forward.
 
Oppo PM3: Very distant, quiet sounding even with my dragonfly amp (albeit not a strong one). Couldn't get over that. Didn't mind the neutral response but prefer something more musical.
 
Nighthawk: Given my failures, I decided to try the Nighthawk as Zotar mentioned. Getting closer but now trebles are too veiled or quiet, and some of the midrange is empty imo. Good bass, could use a touch more "feel" to it.
 
I find the bass in the m50x to be almost ideally if it was cleared up and like up 2db - it almost feels like a headphone subwoofer so you can feel it sometimes. The X2 felt like it had a narrower range of punched up bass.
 
I'm a little bereft and adrift since I thought it would be easier to find  a better version of what I like about the m50x. Looking at the b&w p7, NAD VISO hp50, Meze 99 classics, denon mm400 (unsure about this since no innerfidelity measurementes), Sennheiser Momentum, Fidelio L2, VModa 100, and even the AT solid bass 1100. MAYBE a used elear but I have no idea about their treble or musicalness (or if they are forgiving).
 
I think you should demo the nighthawk if you could. It takes a while to get used to but is definitely laid back trebles (all the ones listed above had laid back trebles as far as I can tell, although I still want some treble so hopefully you can use that list to help). Maybe the new Mr. speakers AEON.
 
About the LCD-2, since I've tried quite a few headphones, I realized I wont be able to do the LCD-2 since its 550grams. The Fostex 610s were about as heavy as I'm willing to go at 370g and even then, they were not fun to have on my head for a few hours without neck pain and headaches.
 
If you do find something that works, let me know so I can add it to my list.

 

[Zotar]

Actually I think the treble has come down on the 400i significantly after using them constantly for 2 weeks (what, burn in actually works?) or I have just gotten used to the sound signature. I really wasn't impressed at all at first when I bought them. However I seem to appreciate them more each day anyway and I am not sure I would want to wear the LCD-2 all day either because of it's weight. I wear headphones pretty much 10 hours a day so comfort is important too and these fit my head like a glove. Maybe you should give them a chance if you can buy them with a no questions asked return policy like I did. The bass does not have the biggest impact straight out of the box but the headphones respond really well to EQ + bass boost on the amp when needed. Think I will settle for these after all anyway.

 

[drwlf]

Not really useful, but I'm just pondering:
It might be a difficult departure from 400i in the longer run, if you get accustomed to the inherent attack/decay properties and enjoy them, which give the 400i a rather 'exciting' characteristic.
For example, LCD-2 might sound a tad "boring";

1. with the recessed treble, (just heard a fazor model, the detail was there though),
2. if not musical, (depending on your preferences),
3. albeit having the slam in the bass, (which might make the 400i sound 'anemic' in comparison).

 
A cheapo option with the 400i might be worth considering as well: pad-rolling!

 

[czy6412]

You should try ZMF Atticus