[MikeW]

Yeah i can agree with you here, 5% improvment might be considered alot if you make 60$ an hour. But if you make 10 bucks an hour (like me, unfortunatly) it is much less improvment

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS I think it is at $364.27. Seriously, there is no answer to the original question. The "sweet spot" will differ for everybody, as it depends in large part on a variety of things that vary from person to person. Also, it depends on how one defines the "sweet spot" or "diminishing returns"? Those terms can mean different things to different people. Nevertheless, a thread like this probably has some value, and might be helpful to those shopping for a new amp, as it provides suggestions for amps to look at in a certain price range, opinions regarding what kind of quality is available at certain prices, and indications by others of what amps in what price ranges have satsified them. So in effect, the type of information generated by this thread is probably valuable. But comments or suggestions to the effect that the point of "diminishing returns" for everyone kicks in a certain dollar point or at a certain quality amp are just absurd, IMO.

 

[raisin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teerawit lol...true! This is highly subjective, and it depends on your source, headphones, power, your budget, if you consider $200 or $2000 to be expensive, etc.

Ears, let's not forget the ears! Just like athletic ability, the five? sense's are not absolute, everyone's is different. Then there is also personal taste's and experience to factor in.

Once again, if the OP'er had provided some background in his profile, more pertinent answers would be forthcoming.

 

[randyruiz]

The real truth is you get to the point of diminishing returns once you pass a $50 cmoy. After that its all audiophile Bu** Sh**. If by some chance you want to use your audio gear to enjoy your music instead of using your music to judge your audio gear you are in good shape. A good set of headphones a cmoy and an ipod is all you need. Then forget this sites url and go spend some time listening to music. Thats the real payoff.

 

[Solude]

The sweet spot is $300USD. That's HeadAmp Lite, M[size=xx-small]3[/size], PPA territory. In tube amps the sweet spot is closer to $600USD with SP PPX, Woo3, EC HD25 all heavy hitters.

That's not to say there weren't gains to be had by jumping to my Reference but its some severe diminishing returns there. Well not so much at the price I paid but for the rest of you

 

[redrich2000]

Surely for value the DIY amps (M3, PPA etc.) have to be the go? With other amps a portion of what you pay goes to marketing and other costs, even if is a limited operation like HeadRoom (as opposed to say Sony). With DIY almost all the price would go in parts.

I have just ordered an M3 from Rockhopper its gonna cost me around $500 with STEPS, OPA627/637, crossfeed and some extra op amps to try. I am confident I am getting great value. But I have to let you know how good it is when I get it

.

 

[sacd lover]

The sweet spot of the sweet spots is the SLAM PPX3.

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover The sweet spot of the sweet spots is the SLAM PPX3.

Given my musical preferences, I wouldn't even buy an amp with the word "slam" in the title

. Not looking for bass slam by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[gsferrari]

I highly recommend the M3 amp simply because I was stunned by it's performance to price ratio.

Another excellent value amp is the Woo Audio 3....a LOT of amp for the money.

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch Given my musical preferences, I wouldn't even buy an amp with the word "slam" in the title . Not looking for bass slam by any stretch of the imagination.

Bass slam is only the beginning. This amp does eveything extremely well. The tone is exceedingly natural. The amp is fast. The amp has bass control and good bass resolution to go with the impactfulness. The mids are alive and lifelike. The treble has extension and detail without any etch or harshness. The sense of space is very good and image placement is very precise. The SLAM PPX3 has the sound quality of the most expensive amps at a fraction of their cost. If I didnt already know you are biased against tubes I would tell you the amp is a must hear.

 

[sonance]

As you can see from the variety of answers here, you will never see anything like a real consensus on value for money type questions here.
Really, based on how much you make and how seriously you take your listening, the answers are bound to vary.
That said, if one was to ignore cost, amps like the Dynahi and the MPX3 do sound a lot better to me in just about every regard than a CMOY or Mint type amp - to use an extreme example. How much better? Well its hard to quantify - to some it will be infinitely better, since the cost of the CMOY / Mint is practically negligible, and the importance of good quality sound is high. To others, the difference is small or irrelevant because they can't afford the more expensive amps or they don't care about the quality of the sound as much / can't hear a difference. I mean, I know people who claim they can't tell the difference between the output of $200 computer speakers playing mp3s and a $20,000 setup at a show like T.H.E.
To me personally the value proposition of a $1000 amp is still present, the idea is not complete crazy, but a .. say $5000 amp seems somewhat crazy, because I can't see myself buying that, and therefore have a hard time imagining how good a headphone amplifier would have to sound in order to make me part with 5K. For people just learning of headphone amplifiers for the first time and yet still concerned about the quality of sound, those numbers would probably be closer to $100 - possibly a value, $500 - straitjacket craziness.
People who buy audiophile equipment aren't *completely* crazy (especially in these price ranges) and there has to be some incentive or value/quality proposition to get them to buy better equipment. Even to someone buying a SDS-XLR it has to sound like it's worth every last penny or they'd buy a cheaper amp. I'd say there is no such thing as a "general" sweet spot, or we'd all be buying the same 2-3 amps in the $200-300 range that seems to be the most common opinion.
A last thing to keep in mind is most people started out with cheaper equipment, listened for a while, then heard something better at a meet or a friends place or just bought a new amp based on hearsay, and got to compare the two, and then moved up the food chain. That is to say, the more expensive amp *sounded* good enough that they sold the old amp (or at least the didnt return / resell the new one.) The fact that *so many* people here, and there are new examples of this everyday, keep finding more expensive amps that are worth the extra money, goes to show that as we increase our budget there are better amps out there for some of us that do improve the listening experience to provide a new sweet spot.
The Short Answer: For me the sweet spot is currently $1000, and rising

.

 

[cotdt]

I think past the $400 mark for amps, it's better to put money into upgrading the source. past this point the source seems to always make a bigger impact on the sound than the amp. this is only true if you're after neutrality of course (and let's not start a debate on what exactly neutral is, I think we all have a good idea of what it is). now i build my own headphone and loudspeaker amps and oftentimes a cheap DIY amp with a power supply upgrade will sound better than a lot of the commercial stuff out there. pretty soon the class-D amps will surpass the Class A/AB amps in sound quality and then we'll have really cheap headphone amps that will blow everything else away, except for those who have a preference for a certain coloration. they will have the best aspects of tube amps and of solid state and be far cheaper than both. but i won't give any details on these until they actually come out.

 

[nblis]

Just to throw out one more thought. Srajan Ebaen thinks the point of diminishing returns sets in with Channel Islands headphone amp with power supply. I think that is $350 for the headphone amp and $159 for the power supply. He has listened to a fair number of headphone amps, and you would do well to read his reviews over on 6moons. I don't always agree with his reviews, but what he says is worth thinking about.

Have fun!
Noel

 

[sonance]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cotdt I think past the $400 mark for amps, it's better to put money into upgrading the source. past this point the source seems to always make a bigger impact on the sound than the amp. this is only true if you're after neutrality of course (and let's not start a debate on what exactly neutral is, I think we all have a good idea of what it is). now i build my own headphone and loudspeaker amps and oftentimes a cheap DIY amp with a power supply upgrade will sound better than a lot of the commercial stuff out there. pretty soon the class-D amps will surpass the Class A/AB amps in sound quality and then we'll have really cheap headphone amps that will blow everything else away, except for those who have a preference for a certain coloration. they will have the best aspects of tube amps and of solid state and be far cheaper than both. but i won't give any details on these until they actually come out.

I wouldn't agree generally with the "better than a lot of the commercial stuff out there" notion. To me, commerial stuff that's popular here - i.e. professionally made and sold amps like the Singlepower, RSA Audio etc., offer solid improvements over cheaper DIY designs like the PPA with a STEPS PSU. The M3 and Dynahi (and balanced variants) can play in the big leagues, but I don't think they are particularly "cheap" - relatively speaking.
The GCHA from PS Audio is a variant on a class D design and some people do think it sounds excellent - I haven't heard it - so it will be interesting to see how much digital amps catch on in head-fi. Digital ("Class D") amps haven't killed the competition in the speaker based audiophile world, despite similar predictions based on Bel Canto / PS Audio's early amps and even recent mod-friendly Panasonic, Sharp, etc mass market receivers with digital amps. I have heard some of the ICEPower amps which are really good, and I think they have their place in the high end amp market, but I see them slowly splitting market share with traditional solid state and tube designs, not replacing them in the near term.

 

[greenhorn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnewport Where is the "sweet spot" for amps? I am wondering what is a good amount to spend to get the best greatest increase in sound quality. Would it be 200 for a Portaphile, 300 for a Glite, 500 for a Woo3...etc.? I know it is probably best to audition several amps and learn what you like, but I am just looking for a ball park range or specific amp that gets as close to a Audio Utopia as possible without costing 2k.

If you don't want to limit your options to US manufacturers only, then you should definitely put the new Meier Audio Corda Aria in the equation

 

[atx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnewport Where is the "sweet spot" for amps? I am wondering what is a good amount to spend to get the best greatest increase in sound quality. Would it be 200 for a Portaphile, 300 for a Glite, 500 for a Woo3...etc.?

The sweet spot depends on the music material you listen to, and your source and headphones. If your source is an $800 cd player, then you can probably do better than a $300 amp. On the other hand, if your favorite music material is rap, then you'd probably be better off with a cmoy.

My sweet spot is the microdac + portaphile. Most of my music material don't even do the microdac justice, and my ears can't tell the difference between a $200 portaphile and a $350 M3. So there it is.