What is a step up from Starquad?

[ScubaSteve87]

One of my buddies just bought some new gear and he asked me if I could make some really good interconnects for him. So what is a step up from the standard Canare Starquad and cheapo neutrik RCA connectors. I am thinking of going with the Neutrik Pro-Fi's I seem to recall reading good things about them here. What should I look into for cable. Idk if I want to bite the bullet and get silver, but is there some cable I could use that is just a step better than starquad? I will prob order an extra few feet so I can use it to recable some headphones as well.

 

[Teerawit]

Cardas IC cable?

Check out www.partsconnexion.com for some ideas on more boutique-y cables.

 

[Garbz]

Thesedays staquad would be my choice for any system.

 

[ScubaSteve87]

THe Cardas cable looks pretty good, but still pretty expensive compared to starquad that is only 35 cents a foot.

 

[Emon]

The star quad design is, if I recall correctly, engineered for low microphonics (hence why it is used for microphones), low noise and low crosstalk. If you want my honest opinion, you don't need anything else. Recabling headphones is pointless to begin with, and using star quad is further bad, because it's meant for carrying one signal line per cable, not two. Twisting channels = crosstalk.

 

[ScubaSteve87]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emon The star quad design is, if I recall correctly, engineered for low microphonics (hence why it is used for microphones), low noise and low crosstalk. If you want my honest opinion, you don't need anything else. Recabling headphones is pointless to begin with, and using star quad is further bad, because it's meant for carrying one signal line per cable, not two. Twisting channels = crosstalk.

Well I can understand for RCA's that coaxial makes sense, a lot of mid grade cables are made with Canare coaxial type, but why is recabling headphones bad. Many professional recables are claimed to sound much better than stock cables. Just look at what headroom sells and also all the Senn cables out there.

 

[Emon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScubaSteve87 Well I can understand for RCA's that coaxial makes sense, a lot of mid grade cables are made with Canare coaxial type, but why is recabling headphones bad. Many professional recables are claimed to sound much better than stock cables. Just look at what headroom sells and also all the Senn cables out there.

So? There are people willing to believe cables will matter, so there are people willing to sell them. Cable markup is beyond sick. It's to the level of fraudulent. A few dollars in materials, a few dollars for construction, the rest is in words and marketing.

Having listening experience or even experience making audio products doesn't make you immune from the effects of placebo. Not at all. Double-blind tests and measurements are the only way to go. If you can find an article from a peer-reviewed scientific journal which supports cables in audio, I will PayPal you the entire balance of my checking account.

 

[ScubaSteve87]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emon So? There are people willing to believe cables will matter, so there are people willing to sell them. Cable markup is beyond sick. It's to the level of fraudulent. A few dollars in materials, a few dollars for construction, the rest is in words and marketing. Having listening experience or even experience making audio products doesn't make you immune from the effects of placebo. Not at all. Double-blind tests and measurements are the only way to go. If you can find an article from a peer-reviewed scientific journal which supports cables in audio, I will PayPal you the entire balance of my checking account.

Ha I actually looked and I found this...http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/5/6528.html

I do have to say that after reading the above I am quite skeptical. I can see how good quality cables make a difference. I experienced it first hand, not neccessarily better sound, but just different. Last month at the dorm, we were using a cheapo RCA to Mini cable to hook my friends Ipod to my stereo. Then I made one using some SPC I bought off ebay and some neturik connectors. The digital volume readout on the stereo never changed, but the DIY cable was about 6-7db louder. Thats what I guesstimated from the stero volume. There was no doubt somehow the signal coming through was stronger. I can't really comment on the SQ, never really listened that hard. But after reading that ecoustics forum information and other audioholics stuff, I am very very skeptical about the entire cable thing.

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/...e-Breakin.html

this was also quite interesting. Especially the last quote. But now I am thinking maybe I should just go with good old canare starquad afterall. Might not sound better, but at least I'll know that the quality of the cable construction won't be impacting the sound in any way

 

[skyskraper]

i like the accompanying article Top Ten Signs an Audio Cable Vendor is Selling You Snake Oil

 

[ScubaSteve87]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyskraper i like the accompanying article Top Ten Signs an Audio Cable Vendor is Selling You Snake Oil

Oh forgot to mention that. Also a good read

 

[Emon]

If you do any measurements (which are difficult to do on the cheap) or just double-blind tests, I think you'll find it doesn't matter, in most cases, if the cable is Star Quad, Zu Firehose-I mean Mobius or a metal coat hanger. Star Quad is designed to carry line-level signals for hundreds of feet without distorting the signal. It's great for mono runs, but never stereo. If you want stereo, Canare and other companies like Belden do make multichannel audio cable. Check out Markertek.com for that kind of stuff.

 

[Voodoochile]

Most included ICs (that come with gear) are really horrid quality. Cheaply formed connectors and cheezy cable.

Canare Starquad, terminated with even modest RCA plugs, will get you far closer to high-end than low-end, and for not a lot of money. To improve on it, you will have to really get serious about parting with a lot of dough.

In summary, an IC with decent, fairly ordinary cable like Starquad- and some durable plugs that are carefully soldered on, will take you most of the way.

FWIW, Mogami's version of "starquad" is supposedly marginally better (slightly less capacitance???), but either is very good, and also affordable. Canare GS-6 is really good as well, and is easy to work with for an RCA-RCA cable. It's coax, but is super-flexible, and hase a nice conductive flexible layer between the braided shield and the core.

I think that the first benefit in making an IC is getting away from the trashy plugs and getting into something more substantial. The cable itself is also important, but ditching the craptacular plug is paramount.

 

[Jam_Master_J]

Maybe try Beldin 89207 withe Eichmann Bullets? That's my next cable.
I'm using the 89207 with some Miova connectors and it does a good job. It sounds slightly better than my Starquad based RCAs.
But for me the biggest benefit was the ease of working with this cable. It's a little stiff but well constructed and easy to strip and solder. It has two larger conductors instead of 4 so it's less hassle than the starquad IMO.
Here is a pic:

 

[Garbz]

It's true starquad was designed to carry a single signal per wire, but Emon you are exadurating. Even using 2 or 3m starquad for interconencts does not negatively effect my crosstalk with statistical significance. Averageing over a few tests trying my long interconnects there was only ~1dB difference on average in crosstalk between 2x RCAs, and Starquad with DIN connectors carrying both signals in the single cable over a 2-3m cable.
And given that vinyl (often audiophile medium of choice) has crosstalk of only 30dB or so, is it really worth dissing this cheap cable?

All in all I used it for all my connections. Balanced and single ended. And I've never been happier. Plus I regained $400 after selling my Eichmann interconnects and speaker cables.

 

[ScubaSteve87]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garbz It's true starquad was designed to carry a single signal per wire, but Emon you are exadurating. Even using 2 or 3m starquad for interconencts does not negatively effect my crosstalk with statistical significance. Averageing over a few tests trying my long interconnects there was only ~1dB difference on average in crosstalk between 2x RCAs, and Starquad with DIN connectors carrying both signals in the single cable over a 2-3m cable. And given that vinyl (often audiophile medium of choice) has crosstalk of only 30dB or so, is it really worth dissing this cheap cable? All in all I used it for all my connections. Balanced and single ended. And I've never been happier. Plus I regained $400 after selling my Eichmann interconnects and speaker cables.

Hmm interesting, so what do you guys use for carrying stereo signals? I used starquad for my headphone extention cable-stereo. Its 12 feet and sound fine to me