[Fakeyfakerson]

Just wondering, can't you buy a usb DAC to amp that would be higher quality for around the same price as you could say a xonar essence stx? This is aside from gamers who want the EAX support of creative cards.

 

[ekliptiko]

some argue that SPDIF is better than USB, and so they use the sound card as a transport.
 
yes, you could replace DAC + AMP with a xonar essence card.

 

[Fakeyfakerson]

But most motherboards have SPDIF on them stock, right? So what exactly does a sound card bring to the table? Don't most sound cards have slightly cheaper DAC's or amps built into them than you could buy standalone for around the same price as the full fledged card? For instance, with the essence stx for, let's say, $200, couldn't you with that same $200 find a better dedicated DAC/amp combo?

 

[beeman458]

But most motherboards have SPDIF on them stock, right? So what exactly does a sound card bring to the table?
 
Convenience, price and equipment efficiency.  If you have a decent power supply unit coupled with a high-end sound card like a Xonar STX, you have the convenience of an all in one package installed in your desktop that you can, for a reasonable price, attach your headphones to with no extra boxes taking up limited desktop space.  Very nice.
 
Now if one gets the sound quality bug, the sound card then becomes a conduit one can extract HDD stored music files from and via the S/PDIF out, the better DAC/Amp combination takes over.
 
So in my opinion, it all boils down to price, convenience, desk space and finally, overall, what the listener themselves want out of the deal.
 

 

[silverxxx]

If you consider the soundcard has no power supply and case, you might find out a dac would have less money to spend on the actual dac.

 

[Fakeyfakerson]

Quote:

But most motherboards have SPDIF on them stock, right? So what exactly does a sound card bring to the table?
 
Convenience, price and equipment efficiency.  If you have a decent power supply unit coupled with a high-end sound card like a Xonar STX, you have the convenience of an all in one package installed in your desktop that you can, for a reasonable price, attach your headphones to with no extra boxes taking up limited desktop space.  Very nice.
 
Now if one gets the sound quality bug, the sound card then becomes a conduit one can extract HDD stored music files from and via the S/PDIF out, the better DAC/Amp combination takes over.
 
So it all boils down to price, convenience, desk space and finally, overall, what the listener wants out of the deal.
 

So sound cards are good bang for your buck type deals, I guess my question is, for the price of an essence STX ($200) would you be able to get a better sounding external DAC and amp combo.
 

 

[beeman458]

I guess my question is, for the price of an essence STX ($200) would you be able to get a better sounding external DAC and amp combo.
 
Yes.  According to reviews as I have no direct experience with either the Audio-gd "Sparrow" and the Audio-gd "Fun."
 
It all depends on your need which way to go, totally in the computer or on the desk DAC/Amp combo.
 
Don't forget highest quality rips; 1.41Mbps, uncompressed, using bit perfect ripping programs coupled to a reference grade headphone like a Sennheiser HD650 if you can swing it.  All the above makes a huge difference, but it starts getting expensive fast.
 
Currently I'm reripping the whole audio library using dBpoweramp, a retail CD ripper download that costs $38.00 USD's.  Money well spent compared to all the different freeware versions I tried first.

 

[Fakeyfakerson]

Ehh, I'm not too worried about my source files. In almost all DBT's 320/v0 mp3's are indistinguishable from lossless flac with the exception when using the highest grade equipment and listening to complex music. But that's a whole other story. Basically wondering if $200 can buy an external DAC/amp combo that is better than sound cards like the STX and others in that price range.

 

[beeman458]

Ehh, I'm not too worried about my source files.
 
If that's the case, then you should be happy with anything you decide to buy.
 

 
Basically wondering if $200 can buy an external DAC/amp combo that is better than sound cards like the STX and others in that price range.
 
Can't rightly say as I can only write from personal experience.  My experience was to install the STX and then upgrade the power supply to a high end modular power supply unit, coupled to a Sennheiser HD650 and a custom headphone cable.  Next came high bit rate, quality rips, ripping in 1.41Mbps.  Yes, there was a difference and yes, I'd characterize it as both a huge difference and worth the effort to re-rip the whole library.  Yesterday I downloaded the dBpoweramp CD ripper and I'm now re-ripping the library again.  Why?  Because it makes a difference.
 
Personally, if you're not willing to rip high bit, then you don't need better gear cause the bits won't be there for the better gear to take advantage of.
 

 

[Fakeyfakerson]

Quote:

Ehh, I'm not too worried about my source files.
 
If that's the case, then you should be happy with anything you decide to buy.
 

I mean my source files specifically, i'm not worried about them because there's no low bitrate 128kb/s mp3's or the like, all 320 and v0, which are audibly identical to lossless in all but the highest end equipment. This is aside the point of the thread though

 

[beeman458]

which are audibly identical to lossless in all but the highest end equipment. This is aside the point of the thread though

 
Actually, it's all part of a chain, your choice.  It cost me $38.00 dollars and the time it takes to do the rips.  Rip, don't rip but if you don't care about your source material, why bother?
 
A suggestion, try losing the attitude that DBT's are the end-all-be-all answer and instead, let your ears tell you what the truth is.  This as opposed to what some test lover wants you to believe.  Use your ears.
 

 

[Fakeyfakerson]

Well as a scientist it's too illogical for me to give up DBT's and give into placebo. I'm talking personally and statistically; I personally cannot tell the difference between 320/v0 mp3's and flac, and statistics show that the vast majority of people can't either. Again not saying it's not possible, it's just not worth it to me, maintaining a separate library of lossless audio and mp3's that I can fit onto my iphone. And again, that's not the point of this thread. If you feel lossless sounds better to you then go for it, I was wondering about hardware DAC's and amps though

 

[beeman458]

Well as a scientist it's too illogical for me to give up DBT's and give into placebo.
 
Your above means nothing to me cause that's just ego talking.
 
Here's a couple of links for you to play with.  I give you a win/win proposition.  If you can't hear a difference, you win.  If you can hear a difference, you win.
 
First link is to dBpoweramp.  You can download a trial version, no charge, so no cost.  Just a bit of unscientific play time.  Never hurts to play.
 
The second link is to EAC; Exact Audio Copy.  Warning, doesn't get along well with Win7 x64.
 
Here's a Wiki link that talks the program up and gives you a lot of information on what's what with EAC.
 
This link is a setup guide for EAC.  It's a bit of a pain to set-up, that's why I'm such a fan of dBpoweramp.
 
There, you now have it, presented to you in a nutshell.  You can be held chained to your scientific DBT's (which are as bogus as the day is long) or you can take a free, unencumbered, no cost to you, walk on the wild side and then you can come back here and write about how you feel so foolish because you wasted your time when you knew better because you're a scientist.
 

 

[beeman458]

320/v0 mp3's and flac
 
For what it's worth, FLAC is nothing more than a CoDec or compression/decompression program and has nothing to do with ripping 1.41Mbps bit-rate.
 
With all due respect, I think what's happening is that in all your scientific wonder, you're confusing compression/decompression programs with ripping programs and the bit-rate the files are ripped at.  dBpoweramp will both rip highest quality (1.41Mbps) and compress in FLAC; best of both worlds.
 
And again, that's not the point of this thread.
 
Sure it is as you're worried about quality of sound and that's what I'm doing, sharing with you how you can get there with the least amount of effort as it's all a part of a chain.  The point, garbage in, garbage out and if you're feeding your DAC garbage, you're going get a garbage analogue signal dancing with your ear drums.  So yes, the quality of your rip is very important to this question.  Now, if you want to keep feeding your DAC a garbage bit-stream, that's your business.  Me?  I'm just trying to thoughtfully share.
 

 

[Fakeyfakerson]

Well now that the thread is sufficiently derailed, how about this. Since you're already an expert on the ripping of lossless audio, how about you upload a couple of samples of songs ripped both losslessly and compressed to v0 and I'll tell you whether I can hear the difference between them. If I can then you've converted me, but from every test I've ever tried they've sounded identical to me, and scores of tests online show other people are the same. I'm open to changing my opinion though.