[kukrisna]

hrmm - to be quite honest we lose a LOT of detail with live music so technically shouldnt phones that sound "natural" and "real" not have a lot of detail but making up for that in tone and timbre with a decent presentation?

im guessing uber detail is more a desire for super hi-fi/audiophile who want to hear everything while realism in tone and timbre might be something a person in search of more musicality would be looking for

donno if im correct there...

 

[milkpowder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wang228 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree with your finding that most violin recordings sound too harsh and not smooth enough. But my guess is that the OP may be used to hearing the violin real up close. I've found that violins always sound much more aggressive when listened near the player. Further from the player, especially in a big concert hall, the agressive treble mellows out. So, it really depends on where we sit relatively to the violin. Perhaps the fact that most recording sounds harsh might be the results of the microphone being put near the player, and not where a normal concert goer sit. As to the original question, i think natural would mean that it sounds like real instruments, but that up to each individual to judge. A useful indication for natural reproduction for me is that the phones shoudl not give me any ear fatigue after a 1-2 hour listenning. Real and loud orchestral concert never give me any fatigue.

I think you're spot on

BTW, playing for a recording and playing for a larger concert audience requires a different style of playing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kukrisna /img/forum/go_quote.gif i have yet to hear one person who can identify a particular bow, string brand, rosin brand, let alone violin make on a recording - which is where the player comes in, something we can all identify a bit more

It's possible, but to do so you would really have to know the violin very, very well first. Rosin brand is probably pushing it a little though

There was quite an interesting double blind test for a panel of experienced luthiers and experts to try and spot the nicest sounding violin amongst a selection of contemporary violins, Strads, etc... The verdict of the test was that one of the contemporary violins sound actually sounded nicer than the rest and iirc all of them thought that one was the Strad. The stereotypical Strad sound which the experts thought they knew so well was actually debunked! Interesting. The video is on YouTube, but I can't seem to find it.

 

[kukrisna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkpowder /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think you're spot on BTW, playing for a recording and playing for a larger concert audience requires a different style of playing. It's possible, but to do so you would really have to know the violin very, very well first. Rosin brand is probably pushing it a little though There was quite an interesting double blind test for a panel of experienced luthiers and experts to try and spot the nicest sounding violin amongst a selection of contemporary violins, Strads, etc... The verdict of the test was that one of the contemporary violins sound actually sounded nicer than the rest and iirc all of them thought that one was the Strad. The stereotypical Strad sound which the experts thought they knew so well was actually debunked! Interesting. The video is on YouTube, but I can't seem to find it.

well the thing is in a recording - the original source of sound goes through so much processing, and then even more during playback, that i often wonder how much the recording itself is actually colored, let alone how much my rig colors it - though im sure recording engineers do their best to be true to the actual sound of the actual violin that's being played

 

[milkpowder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kukrisna /img/forum/go_quote.gif well the thing is in a recording - the original source of sound goes through so much processing, and then even more during playback, that i often wonder how much the recording itself is actually colored, let alone how much my rig colors it - though im sure recording engineers do their best to be true to the actual sound of the actual violin that's being played

I must admit I completely misunderstood your point when I made my initial reply. I was under the impression that you were talking about identifying violins/bows/rosin/strings in real life.

My bad. I'm completely with you anyway. The acoustics of the recording environment also affects the sound so much that you'd be hard pushed to recognise whether it's a Vuillaume Strad copy or the Strad itself, let alone whether they're using Larsen Tziganes or Pirastro Evah Pirazzi with a gold Oliv E string

 

[unclejr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkpowder /img/forum/go_quote.gif I must admit I completely misunderstood your point when I made my initial reply. I was under the impression that you were talking about identifying violins/bows/rosin/strings in real life. My bad. I'm completely with you anyway. The acoustics of the recording environment also affects the sound so much that you'd be hard pushed to recognise whether it's a Vuillaume Strad copy or the Strad itself, let alone whether they're using Larsen Tziganes or Pirastro Evah Pirazzi with a gold Oliv E string

On a completely unrelated note, I absolutely love the warm, sweet sound of the gold Oliv E string. I won't play with anything but gold Es these days.

 

[milkpowder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclejr /img/forum/go_quote.gif On a completely unrelated note, I absolutely love the warm, sweet sound of the gold Oliv E string. I won't play with anything but gold Es these days.

Agreed. The sparkle, clarity and brilliance is unmatched. Having said that, I can imagine certain violins where extra brilliance is more detrimental than beneficial. As you probably already know, it's important to keep the four strings relatively balanced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclejr /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was kinda with you until the smooth = sterile ... what you described to my ACx (etc) would be considered more sterile. I enjoy a healthy amount of detail as much as the next person, as I find great enjoyment hearing the bite at the beginning of a strong down bow, for instance, and even on my current hp rig I can discern when a bowing mistake on a long legato note if the bow is bouncing around a bit too much. However, sterile to me actually be less air around the notes, no grace, no elegance (quantify that!). Like when I was a beginner playing Twinkle Twinkle Little Stars from Suzuki 1 on a rental violin. In a tin room. My poor, poor parents. And brother.

Rental violins... yuck

Tinny sound, scratchy notes, no power, poor harmonics, lack of depth etc... j/k I'm sure there are some good ones.

Smooth doesn't mean lack of texture or sterile as someone previously said. I was at an opera at the Covent Garden Opera house some years ago and I remember very well the concertmaster's violin. As I was in a box, I had a perfect bird's eye view of the orchestra (which in retrospect wasn' so great for the overall performance). I was busy doing something when suddenly, I heard someone tune their violin. My ears perked up and I thought to myself, "what a beautiful tone!" It was so smooth, so delicately textured, yet deep and resonant. It really brought a whole new meaning to the word "transparent". If a pair of headphones can reproduce that sound from a well recorded recording, then it'll be great. Unfortunately I don't think I have ever heard that sound reproduced by anything but a violin. It seems to be more of a problem with recording quality than technical limitation of headphones (or any form of transducer).

 

[kukrisna]

haha - unfortunately i've been spending more on my headphone rig than i have on violin maintenance - strings, bow rehairs - man do they add up...

havent yet tried an E-gold - i used dominants, tried vision, played with some evah pirazzis and now back to dominants till i change again

but yeah - i dont even think it's so much of recording ability as it is the fact that the sound just travels through so many components that it gets colored no matter what

 

[robm321]

The most natural and "real" sounding headphone I have ever heard is the Grado HP-1000. [size=xx-small]That is why it's the best headphone on the planet for my tastes/goals.[/size]

Natural to me means the headphones (or speakers) disappear and leave nothing more than the sound. In other words, you hear as little of the headphone/system as possible.

Stax headphones do very well with the technical aspects of sound, but like all stats they sound like very good reproduced music. I can always hear the "stat" sound.

Just MO