[SDDL-UP]

I’m new to everything except CD’s. I have an older, but very good Kenwood receiver: KR-V9010, Kenwood CD player, and Polk Audio RTA-15T & M-5JR speakers on my home system. I’m quite happy with this system, but the Polk Audio speakers need to be driven pretty hard for best performance. I’m looking for a portable “MP3 type” player that has the capability of playing lossless formats so I can get my CD’s into a portable player while retaining excellent audio qualities. I’d want to do this with maybe 200 CD’s. It’s not a deal breaker of any kind, but how many songs might I expect to get into an 8 GB player in a lossless format?

Next to being able to deal with lossless files is sound quality, will I get CD quality sound from this device? I can deal with buying some better headphones, but how true is the sound? I’d love to plug this device into a home or car audio system and get true CD quality sound with my sorting and playlists etc. intact. Maybe the better solution would be the organize everything in the portable then download the files and structure into a full size home player and not worry too much about the performance of the portable?

It would be nice if you could have a “line-out” to a high end audio home system, but it looks like this isn’t really possible since true line out requires a lot of power from a portable device. From browsing around it looks like it’s easy enough to plug these things into a home or car audio system, but the quality will still just be whatever the “MP3 type” player is capable of putting out? It will just be amped up and played on better (or at least bigger) speakers? I’ve read about the Cowon iAudio D2 lacking low end bass and saw one post showing how an add on amp could bring the bass right up – how’s that possible? It must not be an issue with the internal circuitry, but with the internal amplifier?

Music I like to listen to…

Journey / Foreigner / Tom Petty / Bad Company
Queensryche / Tesla / Alice In Chains / AC/DC
Poco / Nitty Gritty Dirt Band / Alabama / Sawyer Brown
Basia / George Winston / Bach
The Hooters / Gin Blossoms / Goo Goo Dolls
Mike + The Mechanics / Mr. Mister / Matchbox 20


I’m not into hip-hop or newer rap (although the original rap was pretty cool). I have eclectic musical tastes and an ear for detail, I enjoy hearing a guitar being played, not just the notes, but the fingers dragging on the strings between notes that gives the music a real feel. If you can understand the qualities of the artists I listed, then you’ll know where I’m coming from.

From everything I’ve researched so far I’m leaning towards the Cowan iAudio D2 but what do the TRUE AUDIOPHILES think?

 

[tot]

When a signal is fed into line in (a stereo system or a portable amp) it requires almost no power, the input impedance is relatively high.

When you connect headphones into the player the required power is many orders of magnitude higher and the amplifier may not be able to cope with it properly and starts rolling the bass.

 

[SDDL-UP]

I guess what I was wondering is how many of these things have a digital output... it looks like not very many! I would have thought this was a pretty common feature. Maybe in a few more years.

 

[babya]

A headphone amp could help greatly when using headphones with certain players, though my Sony and Apple players have good SQ without a amp being used.

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDDL-UP /img/forum/go_quote.gif I guess what I was wondering is how many of these things have a digital output... it looks like not very many! I would have thought this was a pretty common feature. Maybe in a few more years.

Sadly, the trend is in the exact opposite direction.

There is a thread here at Head-Fi that lists quite a few units that do offer digital out. I don't know how recently the OP has been updated, but it will get you started; skim through the other posts and you may find a few more.

Many of the units listed, especially the PCDPs, are no longer made, so you would have to seek them on eBay or from similar sources. Others, like the Pacemaker, are nosebleed expensive (though I'd buy that in umm...a heartbeat if I had the scratch.) Some of the hand-held digital field recorders also offer digital out, but these are generally not ideally suited for use as portable playback devices.

Once upon a time, premium PCDPs such as the iRiver SlimX 550 offered that feature pretty commonly. Some DAPs, and some minidisc portables did as well. I don't know why, but digital outs have all but disappeared from consumer grade portables. I at first thought this was the result of pressure from the record industry (Hello, my name is DrBenway, and I'm paranoid...), but to tell you the truth I think it's more because the average consumer just doesn't care. So the manufacturers can save a few pennies on each unit by not offering the feature.

 

[SiBurning]

I get about 2 albums / GB in FLAC. It's 1/2 - 2/3 the size of the original WAV on the CD.

To get the most from lossless, you need a source with digital output and a good DAC.

There are a few Amp+Dac separates or combos available, but most of the new ones only have USB inputs, so they can only be driven from a computer. The iRiver 120/140 is pretty much the only DAP, and it's been out of production for years, although it is still available new from time to time.

The quality improvement with a good DAC and lossless is dramatic in a subtle way. From your last paragraph, I suspect you'll appreciate the difference. I do. (See my sig.) I won't recommend that route for you, though, since it can get a little complicated. Instead...

You probably need a computer or dedicated music server for the home. You may as well just use that as the source and get a DAC for it. You don't really mention portable, except for the car. You might be best served to just grab some DAP with a line out that handles the lossless formats and not bother with a separate DAC for the car. You really shouldn't be listening that closely while driving anyway. We're all safer if your car sound system isn't all that great.

Keeping all the music on the computer, you could drag & drop whatever files you want to the DAP. 8 GB should get you about 16 hours of music.

... Then again... If your car system has digital inputs, you may have other options for a source.

 

[SDDL-UP]

Thanks for the advice SiBurning. I can totally see myself using a computer server for music at home, about all the details I'm not sure. Would a really good sound card be worthwhile to output to a good amp? Lots of questions about the best way to do all that.

For right now I'm most concerned about getting started with a good portable digital player, something that I might be able to just plug into a higher end system and get good sound from. Am I going to plug in some of today's best PDP's into my home system and say - "Yuck - that's obviously from an inferior machine." even with a lossless format?

I have a feeling I'm just going to have to dive in and make the best of whatever I get.

2 albums per GB = get the largest capacity I can!

 

[SiBurning]

Not sure if this makes sense for you. It's just food for thought. It won't quite get you audiophile sound, but it's a pretty good compromise.

Think about getting one of the newer portable DAC+Amp combos, and maybe one with both line in and line out. Most of these have usb input so you can use it from your computer. Very few have optical inputs for direct hookup to a digital source. Line in and line out would be great for complete flexibility, since you could hook up any source and plug it into your existing home amplifier. It's possible to get all of these features (DAC, amp, line in, line out, optical input, and usb input) in a portable device, but there are very few choices.

The iRiver 120/140 would be a good choice for this. It supports FLAC and has digital optical output. It has a pretty good lineout, which many people say is competitive with other DACs. Personally, I think they all suck compared to a separate DAC. But you might have a decent one in the dac/amp combo.

I think these two could form the basis of a flexible system that could grow with you. It seems a resonable cheap way of solving your immediate requirements, and doesn't toss much money down a dead end intermediate solution.

What you need to do is listen to setups like this to hear if this makes sense. Get yourself to some meets.

 

[iakonafuji]

What's said in this thread will help you greatly, but yeah, I have to agree that listening to FLAC or any Lossless audio file will prove pointless if you are not giving your speakers/headphones enough power to fully emphasize the music going through them