[Steve Eddy]

All this talk of equilibrium is making me dizzy.

k

 

[Antony6555]

What about the $20,000 cables? Would it even be possible to attempt to justify that level of price gouging? To me, what examples like that suggest, is that cables price is not related to cable cost-it's related to what appears reasonable given what a person may have spent on other parts of the system. For example, say I bought $80,000 speakers and a $40,000 amp. At that point, if I am a cable believer, $20,000 cables may seem reasonable. But given the cost to manufacture, they are most likely not.

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antony6555 /img/forum/go_quote.gif What about the $20,000 cables? Would it even be possible to attempt to justify that level of price gouging? To me, what examples like that suggest, is that cables price is not related to cable cost-it's related to what appears reasonable given what a person may have spent on other parts of the system. For example, say I bought $80,000 speakers and a $40,000 amp. At that point, if I am a cable believer, $20,000 cables may seem reasonable. But given the cost to manufacture, they are most likely not.

Here are my thoughts on that.

While I think a cable manufacturer is perfectly free to ask whatever they want for their products, when the price asked bears no reasonable relationship to their cost to produce, I think such manufacturers are simply displaying their contempt for their customers.

k

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif In the world of business, big profit margin is a virtue not a sin.

No, it isn't.

Massive profits are good for shareholders/owners in the short term, but it also means that a competitor is going to eventually eat your lunch.

Further, massive profits off cheap materials is usually an excellent indication of fraud.

The cost analysis posted above is bunk. If that were true, then a company like Blue Jeans - or any other manufacturer with reasonably priced cables - would be out of business.

For that matter, most luxury goods are bull. You see it in every luxury market. The only markets where it isn't entirely hype and puffery are precious metals which have some intrinsic value and real property where land is unique. Cars are not, unless you get into handbuilt models and custom coachwork. Someone said that a BMW costs more than a Fiesta. Marginally, it does. Maybe $2,000 or $3,000 more. Not $50,000.

Fixed costs are pretty much universal for mass-produced cars. The factory, labor, raw materials, etc., are almost identical. Sure, the Corinthian leather costs more than vinyl. But not $50,000 more. Feel free to price out the leather yourself.

Car companies make their money by selling the cheap models at or a little below cost. All profit is loaded into "premium" or "status" models. This isn't exactly a great secret. Take a cost accounting class (I have) and you'll see this laid bare in standard textbooks.

Everything else is more or less the equivalent of a $600 Beanie Baby.

Cables? Either they're on the cutting edge of electrical engineering, metallurgy and materials science, or they're pure, unadulterated fraud.

I'm going with fraud.

 

[KingStyles]

People pay for performance. If cable 1 cost $50 to make and sounds like crap and cable 2 also cost $50 to make but is audible superior but costs $700, if no other cable sounds as good as it for less, then I am more than willing to buy it because it is worth its price. If they both sound exactly the same and the $700 cable just has a great marketing scheme, then it is a rip off and people around here would eventually sound the alarm. If everybody who listens to it says WOW I cant believe the difference, then it might be worth looking into. It all comes down to musicality is in the ear of the beholder and how tick his wallet may be.

 

[haloxt]

Uncle Erik, I don't see anyone eating Monster's profit anytime soon. In that sense Monster should be in the pantheon of godly companies.

 

[royalcrown]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif Uncle Erik, I don't see anyone eating Monster's profit anytime soon. In that sense Monster should be in the pantheon of godly companies.

Monster has a large share of the cable market, especially for the at-large population - however, that's largely a function of Monster signing with major retail outlets (such as Best Buy, Circuit City, and even down to small high-end audio stores) to either exclusively sell Monster Cables or to prominently display Monster Cables to catch consumer's eyes - in the case of Best Buy, non-branded cables aren't even with the home theater components and speakers, they're in a dusty aisle in the back of the store. Similar campaigns have been run with Monster Cable vs speaker cable - you could listen to them side-by-side, but the Monster Cable was 16 gauge and ten feet in length, and the generic wire was 24 gauge and 50 feet in length (numbers aren't accurate, I'll find the link later in my bookmarks folder). Monster advertises very similarly to Bose in that they monopolize on major consumer markets and throw lots of money into advertising. Of course, Monster has also had its fair share of antitrust lawsuits thrown its way - a few were successful, but most weren't (presumably because Monster is rich enough to hire a large squad of top lawyers).

One thing's for sure, Monster hasn't made its profit off of quality or performance.

 

[scootermafia]

A 12 foot cable takes about 45 minutes to braid tops. It takes exponentially longer to braid a 12 than a 10, 8, etc. A 4 foot takes about 3 minutes (I braid like a machine), a 6 foot maybe 6 minutes, an 8 foot 15 minutes, and a 10 foot closer to 30. 4-5 hours is ridiculous.

Edit: depends on what you are braiding. Jena 22g is pretty compliant and won't kink (any PE wire is like this). If we're talking braiding 12 feet of brittle, unpleasant Mundorf 26 gauge silver or something, slit my wrists now.

That being said, there are lots and lots of overheads and do not forget the 25% of your profit you pay to the government as taxes. Competition determines the price for these things and if you don't like the price, then learn to DIY.

 

[DeusEx]

I use custom DIY cables. Braided by an audiophile friend. Me lucky.

 

[Happy Camper]

The other side ARE LIARS.

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Camper /img/forum/go_quote.gif The other side ARE LIARS.

What other side? Who are you talking about?

Sorry, but I just can't seem to connect this post with anything.

k

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingStyles /img/forum/go_quote.gif People pay for performance. If cable 1 cost $50 to make and sounds like crap and cable 2 also cost $50 to make but is audible superior but costs $700, if no other cable sounds as good as it for less, then I am more than willing to buy it because it is worth its price. If they both sound exactly the same and the $700 cable just has a great marketing scheme, then it is a rip off and people around here would eventually sound the alarm. If everybody who listens to it says WOW I cant believe the difference, then it might be worth looking into. It all comes down to musicality is in the ear of the beholder and how tick his wallet may be.

How do you know the difference between the two cables?

People only hear differences when they can see the cable.

If one cable sounds bad to you, a blindfold is all you need to make it sound like every other cable.

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif People only hear differences when they can see the cable.

Not true.

People can and do perceive differences even under blind conditions.

In most every blind test I'm aware of, the participants were confident of their perceiving differences during the test.

I mean think about it. If they didn't perceive any differences under blind conditions, you could never run a blind test in the first place.

So it's not that people only perceive differences when they can see the cable. It's that after the test, their identification of the cables is incorrect roughly half the time.

k

 

[Happy Camper]

A general statement to fit either side. It was made to poke fun at both sides.

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Camper /img/forum/go_quote.gif A general statement to fit either side. It was made to poke fun at both sides.

Ah, gotcha!

Was hoping it was something along those lines.

Trying to think how it could be put into some sort of "moebius" quote that turns back on itself. Something like:

The other side ARE LIARS! --The Other Side

Mmmm. Might need more work.

k