What are the preouts on a Schiit Valhalla for?

[Rellion]

Hey guys
 
Was wondering if I could connect the pre-outs on a Valhalla 2 to an active speaker and if so would it just be a pass through or would it take the output from the tubes? Sorry if its a newbie question but just wondering. 

 

[rmullins08]

You would get the tube sound on the speakers.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Preout means preamplifier output - that means you can control the volume. A fixed pass through is usually labelled as a lineout, same as on DACs, CDPs, iPods, etc. Since the Valhalla has a tube preamp stage, then the signal will go through the tubes.

 

[Rellion]

My intent is to connect my Emotiva 4s monitors from my tv. So I can either buy a Bifrost, connect via optical out from the tv and plug into the speakers or I could buy a Valhalla and do the above. 
 
Which would be better? 

 

[rmullins08]

You have a few options
 
TV -> RCA to each of the Emotiva's
TV Optical -> Bifrost -> Emotiva's would work
 
In both of these scenarios you would need a way to control the volume like the
https://emotiva.com/products/electronics/control-freak or Schiit Sys
 
TV -> Valhalla -> Emotivas.  Would give you a bit of the tube sound, but you would be relying on the source of the TVs audio out.
 
TV -> Bifrost -> Valhalla -> Emotivas.  Bifrost handles DAC, Valhalla gives you the tubes and volume control, and the ability to listen with headphones.

 

[Rellion]

I understand that the last option is the best... but budgetary constraints limit me to one of the two... would it be better for me to buy a valhalla 2 first and then maybe add on a dac in future? 
 
Also, is the tv's output that bad? 

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  My intent is to connect my Emotiva 4s monitors from my tv. So I can either buy a Bifrost, connect via optical out from the tv and plug into the speakers or I could buy a Valhalla and do the above. 
 
Which would be better? 

 
Both - Bifrost can decode the digital signal, Valhalla can be a unified volume control (just set the Airmotiv4 to a precise level on each side).
 
 

  I understand that the last option is the best... but budgetary constraints limit me to one of the two... would it be better for me to buy a valhalla 2 first and then maybe add on a dac in future? 

 

Do you really need the tubes? And what headphones are you planning on driving with it? If you want solid state you have two other options - either you get a Schiit Modi2Uber+Magni2Uber (Modi has the SPDIF input, Magni has the preamplifier output), or you can get an AudioGD NFB-15 for less than the price of a Bifrost (has all the functions of the M2U+M2U, of course, the trade off is the cheaper-looking chassis, and that it's not made in California, if those are important to you). Then again, if you the other stuff near your TV are all black anyways, then the NFB-15 blends in better.
 
 

 
Also, is the tv's output that bad? 

 

As much as its DAC chip by itself isn't bad, it's not like they really measure the analog output's performance. No guarantees you'd hear the difference but of course it's still a cleaner signal into the amplifier.

 

[Rellion]

   
Both - Bifrost can decode the digital signal, Valhalla can be a unified volume control (just set the Airmotiv4 to a precise level on each side).
 
 
 

Do you really need the tubes? And what headphones are you planning on driving with it? If you want solid state you have two other options - either you get a Schiit Modi2Uber+Magni2Uber (Modi has the SPDIF input, Magni has the preamplifier output), or you can get an AudioGD NFB-15 for less than the price of a Bifrost (has all the functions of the M2U+M2U, of course, the trade off is the cheaper-looking chassis, and that it's not made in California, if those are important to you). Then again, if you the other stuff near your TV are all black anyways, then the NFB-15 blends in better.
 
 
 

As much as its DAC chip by itself isn't bad, it's not like they really measure the analog output's performance. No guarantees you'd hear the difference but of course it's still a cleaner signal into the amplifier.

 
Well i dont really need the tubes but it'd be my first tube item... seems pretty cool though... i wont be using headphones with these just Emotiva Airmotiv 4s monitors... 
 
Thinking of staying within the Schiit brand though... what if i were to buy a cheap dac like a fiio taishan? 

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rellion /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

Well i dont really need the tubes but it'd be my first tube item... seems pretty cool though... i wont be using headphones with these just Emotiva Airmotiv 4s monitors... 

 

 

A direct quote from Schiit that you need to think about. If you're not driving headphones anyway you can just use the Magni2Uber, or heck, the Sys (for $50 more the Magni2Uber will at least allow for a headphone option for night listening, just in case). 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rellion /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

Thinking of staying within the Schiit brand though... what if i were to buy a cheap dac like a fiio taishan? 

 

Given you're not going to use the Valhalla to drive headphones anyway it makes more sense to just use the Sys or Magni2Uber with the Modi2Uber - that leaves you spending less than what the Valhalla alone would cost. Not to mention the Valhalla wouldn't sound different too different from solid state anyway (which personally is a good thing, but still, you won't need it to drive a high impedance headphone, or any headphone for that matter). 

 

 

 

[Rellion]

Oh i forgot to say i used to own a Magni and thought the sound was uninspiring... Sold it away for $30...

If this valhalla is anything like that...

Yup am considering the modi2uber and bifrost

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Oh i forgot to say i used to own a Magni and thought the sound was uninspiring... Sold it away for $30...

If this valhalla is anything like that...

 

What did you use the Magni for that you found "uninspiring"? It's not really the most dynamic sounding headphone amplifier out there but as a preamp I haven't heard anybody say it's not transparent. Now, given the Valhalla uses the tubes but at the same time doesn't add the "syrupy, tubby, euphonically colored tube sound," then it's not going to sound significantly different and you just spent $349 for something that, for how you used it, wasn't any different.

 

That said that doesn't mean they're bad equipment, and in fact that means they're good. Any equipment in the chain isn't supposed to add its own sound, save for the headphones/speakers but only because right now there is a technological limitation that prevents these from having a completely flat sound like the electronics. GIGO, in other words. That's why a DAC would make sense at this point, but then again, not by much, and even then, what are you listening to from the TV anyway? Recording quality and content of the material (ie a TV show isn't exactly as dynamic as a Ridley Scott film with an epic soundtrack, let alone a good music recording), plus compression level, all affect what it sounds like and there's really no way to critically change that.

 

[Rellion]

   

What did you use the Magni for that you found "uninspiring"? It's not really the most dynamic sounding headphone amplifier out there but as a preamp I haven't heard anybody say it's not transparent. Now, given the Valhalla uses the tubes but at the same time doesn't add the "syrupy, tubby, euphonically colored tube sound," then it's not going to sound significantly different and you just spent $349 for something that, for how you used it, wasn't any different.

 

That said that doesn't mean they're bad equipment, and in fact that means they're good. Any equipment in the chain isn't supposed to add its own sound, save for the headphones/speakers but only because right now there is a technological limitation that prevents these from having a completely flat sound like the electronics. GIGO, in other words. That's why a DAC would make sense at this point, but then again, not by much, and even then, what are you listening to from the TV anyway? Recording quality and content of the material (ie a TV show isn't exactly as dynamic as a Ridley Scott film with an epic soundtrack, let alone a good music recording), plus compression level, all affect what it sounds like and there's really no way to critically change that.

well i was using it to power my HD700 coming from an iphone LOD....
 
Honestly sounded no different from without the amp... for tv it'd be netflix and spotify 320kbps etc 

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  well i was using it to power my HD700 coming from an iphone LOD....
 
Honestly sounded no different from without the amp... for tv it'd be netflix and spotify 320kbps etc 

 

The HD700 has an efficiency of 105dB/1V (not sure what that is at dB @ 1mW), and the HD600 has an efficiency of 102dB/1V (97db/1mW), plus an easier load of 150ohms vs 300ohms. As it is even my iPad can drive the HD600 to an acceptable loudness without too much distortion, so an iPhone can likely drive the HD700 better than that especially if you're not using them at a loud enough volume to push the iPhone to a point where there is enough audible distortion.

 

That said there are improvements when I drive the HD600 with a better amp (and also a DAC), but assuming I use the same DAC on different amps, the most easily distinguishable change is that the bass notes are tighter and sometimes "pop out" more on some amplifiers, like Meiers (note that the basic topology is similar in all their products, unlike the variety with Schiit). Sometimes the soundstage can be affected as well but not by much. This is why, once you have a good amp that doesn't have any issues driving a particular headphone, there's really no need to keep upgrading. 

 

There were of course other amplification circuits that sounded different, like my Little Dot MkII and the Burson Soloist. Both of them have more bass than Meier and Schiit, but note that the LD has noticeable boom in the bass while the Burson keeps it tight. If the reason why you want to switch amplifiers is to improve the sound by driving the HD700 better, there's likely not much to gain after the Magni; but if your goal is to EQ the headphone by using the amplifier - which is actually weird, since it's called an amplifier and not an equamplifier, meaning what it's supposed to do is amplify the input signal without changing it nor clipping - then the Valhalla isn't your best bet because Schiit designed it so that it would be as transparent as possible instead of artificially warming the sound.

 

Also as for 320kbps from Spotify it's not just the compression format - like I posted above the recording quality and the music itself will affect how much it will tax the amplifier, as well as how compression affects it. Let's take metal for example vs audiophile vocal recordings. Compression doesn't affect the vocal recordings as much since most of the audible sound in it is within the midrange, not affected by compression, but metal sounds markedly different at 256kbps vs CD/FLAC. Same thing with amplifiers and headphones (and to a lesser extent, speakers) - it's easy to get away with a less capable amp if you're playing Audiophile Voices, but the number of instruments happening at the same time basically makes some metal genres about as complex as classical music except for the sophistication of recording techniques used. If you're listening to music that doesn't have a lot going on especially in the lower ranges where distortion is more easily audible then you're not going to hear much of a difference between a good enough amplifier and a really good amplifier.