What actually does an amp do?
Mar 30, 2012 at 12:52 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 16

geofree

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Im really new to the portable amp.
and would like to know that other than increasing the volume what else can it do?
why would some amp cost so much more?
What are the components that an amp consist of?
 
lastly is am amp required for my se535? cause its pretty loud on its own already.
If yes what amp would you recommend?
 
 
 
Mar 30, 2012 at 1:06 AM Post #2 of 16
An amp or amplifier does what its name describes it amplifies the incoming analog signal and outputs that signal which now has more power Power = Current x Voltage and is measured in watts. The more powerful signal is able to drive the drivers in your headphones easier. The benefit of a dedicated amp is that they are built to provide enough power to drive your headphones easily and with less distortion to the signal than say the tiny amps in an ipod where to get a reasonable listening level you are maxing out the amp on some headphones.
 
I feel most headphones can benefit from being driven with a dedicated amp.
 
Mar 30, 2012 at 7:54 PM Post #5 of 16


Quote:
Basically yes. But a good amp allows your music to be presented with more depth and synergy. I would say try one out, you will most likely enjoy the results.



This is such a great explanation actually, I feel without a decent (at least decent) amp, the music sounds so...flat? dull? I'm not sure but those are the words that come to mind, if you're spending a decent amount on HP's or IEM's then you should really get an amp to compliment them..I've never heard of an amp non-believer like there are cable non-believers because amps add a HUGE difference in quality to your music.
 
Mar 30, 2012 at 9:30 PM Post #6 of 16
Quote:
Im really new to the portable amp.
and would like to know that other than increasing the volume what else can it do?
why would some amp cost so much more?
What are the components that an amp consist of?
 
lastly is am amp required for my se535? cause its pretty loud on its own already.
If yes what amp would you recommend?

 
A headphone amplifier is an electronic circuit designed to take in a signal (a voltage level, which changes over time, which comes from the source) and replicate this signal on the output, optionally scaled to be greater or lesser in magnitude so louder or quieter but hopefully the same exact shape as the original.  Headphones generally have fairly low impedances compared to a lot of other electronics, like 12-600 ohms, so they demand a decent amount of current depending on the model.  Thus maintaining a perfect copy of the input on the output is not possible; to do a reasonably good job, you need specialized electronics with the right properties that can handle that kind of load.
 
Any headphone jack has some kind of integrated headphone amp behind it.  A dedicated amplifier with a more sophisticated design may have better performance characteristics than another one or especially something cheap integrated into another general-purpose audio chip:  less noise, less distortion driving all kinds of different headphones at all kinds of different volumes, a flatter frequency response, and so on.  There are tradeoffs to be made with respect to performance, cost, size, power consumption (thus battery life), headphone safety, and so on.  For example, some devices use a DC blocking capacitor between the amp output and the headphone jack, allowing them to use a simpler power supply scheme that conserves energy and reduces cost, and makes sure they have to worry about DC offset frying some headphones; this is at the expense of a little bit of added distortion and low-frequency rolloff, particularly when using lower-impedance headphones.
 
Most portable amps are either based on some op amps or more dedicated headphone amplifier chips.  These contain complex circuits involving transistors and other electronic elements inside.  Mostly you'll see transistor-based active electronics, resistors, and capacitors inside a headphone amp.  It's often not so much the cost of components that's so high for a typical portable headphone amp, but rather the time it takes to do the design, maybe production costs (many companies aren't selling that many amps, so cost per unit is higher than it is in commodity items), and something left to make a profit.  In a portable amp, the cost of the battery and enclosure may actually be relatively high compared to the other components.
 
Some amplifiers also give you some controls to alter the sound, like EQ options or crossfeed.
 
A dedicated amplifier may have better control over the SE535 and give you a somewhat cleaner or otherwise different experience that you might like.  This may or may not result in a different or improved perception of "depth" or "synergy" or whatever else.
 
Actually, one of the biggest advantages a dedicated amp can give you with sensitive IEMs is a different way to control the volume.  By turning the volume down on the source, in software, you're throwing away some of the bit depth of the music, thus making it a bit noisier and more or less dropping some of the details.  If you leave the volume up on the player but bring the volume back down on the amp, you're no longer throwing away that information.
 
Note that something like a $15 FiiO E5 would give you that advantage.  Also, every effect mentioned above may not be a huge deal in practice and may not even be audibly different in many situations.  A lot of people have wonderful things to say about amplifiers and differences with amplifiers, partially because they expect to hear these differences when they buy an expensive new toy, not necessarily because they are that significant or even real.  Also, consider that most people who don't hear such differences, don't bother posting somewhere like head-fi:  there are some people out there who are "amp non-believers" and claim all amps sound the same.  The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.  There are differences, sometimes very obvious differences in some scenarios (and the science backs this up), but these are often exaggerated.  The majority of head-fi opinions about amps are sometimes at odds with what is fairly established and accepted knowledge about the human auditory system, psychoacoustics, and electrical theory.
 
Mar 30, 2012 at 10:34 PM Post #7 of 16
Hi thanks for your concise explanation.
However previously i tried out a Fiio e11 with my se535.
the overall sound seem to become really distorted.
Especially if i turn on the bassboost as well as the high and low gain.
The bass seem to overshadow the other highs and mids and becomes overwhealming and muddy.
If set the bassboost to the minimum on low gain, than it just seems to amplify the sound.
Which i dont seem to require as the se535 on itself is already quite loud.
 
Is this the same for most amp?
 
Mar 30, 2012 at 11:23 PM Post #8 of 16
If a FiiO E11 is not defective, it shouldn't distort significantly with SE535 unless you run them at painful volumes...at least with the EQ options off.  I'm not sure how the EQ is implemented; it usually shouldn't be an issue though other than of course changing the frequency response.
 
Are you sure what you're hearing is more distortion with the E11?  What are you using when not running through the E11?  It's also possible that a cleaner amp can allow you to hear issues with poorly-mastered music, a problematic source, lossy music compression, the headphones, and so on.  I wouldn't think that's it though.
 
With SE535 you can expect different sound from different devices if they have non-negligible output impedance, since the SE535 is quoted at 36 ohms, but it really ranges between 10 and 50 ohms in the treble.  You'll shift the treble balance (more around 2 kHz, less around 6 kHz, more at the very highest frequencies) with higher output impedance.  E11 has around 0.5 ohms output impedance (very low), so you get the frequency response you're "supposed" to get with the SE535.  With other devices you might get something else.
 
Aside from impedance issues and unless you get something more noisy or with intentional distortion added or frequency response alterations, most decent amps should sound more or less similar, probably.
 
Mar 30, 2012 at 11:28 PM Post #9 of 16


Quote:
Hi thanks for your concise explanation.
However previously i tried out a Fiio e11 with my se535.
the overall sound seem to become really distorted.
Especially if i turn on the bassboost as well as the high and low gain.
The bass seem to overshadow the other highs and mids and becomes overwhealming and muddy.
If set the bassboost to the minimum on low gain, than it just seems to amplify the sound.
Which i dont seem to require as the se535 on itself is already quite loud.
 
Is this the same for most amp?


My E11 will do that when set to low power mode beneath the battery, exactly as you described but only past 5/8 on the volume control.

Setting the amp to high power solved the problem in my case.
 
 
Mar 31, 2012 at 1:38 PM Post #11 of 16
Quote:
So. According to what you say. Se535 will sound almost the same with most amp? Why?


No, I said amps with different output impedance would sound a bit different with something like SE535.
 
Most decently-designed solid-state amps (not based on vacuum tubes, though some based on tubes qualify too) with low output impedance, and intended not to change the sound, should sound pretty much the same as long as they are being driven within their capabilities, so not into clipping, and with all kinds of EQ and tone controls turned off.  That's assuming the noise levels are similar, or low enough that you don't hear them, and that you're using the same output volumes, and so on.  Most of head-fi, for whatever reasons, would not agree with the above statement.
 
This is despite the fact that the electronic circuits for different amps may be significantly different.
 
What you (somebody) can do is plug a source into amp A, connect the output of the amp to headphones, and then play music through the setup and record what happens on the output of the amp.  What's on the output of the amp is the signal driving the headphones.  Do the same thing with amp B, controlling the volume to be equal and so on.  If amp A and B have sufficiently good performance characteristics driving those headphones at that volume level, you will see that the recording when using amp A looks pretty much identical to the recording when using amp B.  This can be verified with expensive electronics instrumentation gear capable of very fine precision.  You can also run standard audio test signals through both, but music works too and is maybe more comprehensive.  In other words, amp A sent pretty much the same exact signal to the headphones as amp B did, so therefore the sound the headphones put out should be close to the same.  If there is an audible difference, it should probably be subtle at best.
 
This goes for any headphone, though for the most challenging ones, it may require better amplifiers to satisfy the above conditions.
 
So what I mean to say is, the differences between sufficiently decent amplifiers that meet all those conditions, are very small in the grand scheme of audio playback.  For most headphones it doesn't require too much money to get something with great performance relative to the headphones and your ears.  There may easily be significantly greater differences between the L and R pieces of your headphones due to tolerances in the construction, or even greater differences inserting them into the ear in one position as opposed to another.
 
Mar 31, 2012 at 4:29 PM Post #12 of 16
Fiio E11 with Bass Boost at level 1 or 2 is somewhat overkill because by default, it's already boosting low frequencies by a good amount. That means that without Bass Boost, the Fiio E11 should still have more bass than straight out from the source. I say "should" because I'm not sure if you are outputting through LOD or through a headphone port. If you are outputting through LOD, there is a chance the headphone port of the source may still be boosting bass by a little bit, in which case, it might be on par with Fiio E11 where bass is concerned. This is purely up to your ears.
 
If you hear distortion with Bass Boost on, then chances are either:
 
1) The source does not have enough power, so any Bass Boost on the Fiio E11 is just creating distortion rather than pure bass. In this case, it's more because the Fiio E11 doesn't add enough "power" to low frequencies to push them without distortion. I say this because the input impedance of the SE535 is not too high (36Ohm), so it may require more voltage to achieve distortion-free bass. Usually, switching the Fiio E11 to "High Power" mode should fix this, but it's not guaranteed to work all the time.
 
2) SE535 drivers are already at their limits and pushing bass is something you shouldn't do. But this is more of a rare case from my experience, and is often a defect rather than an actual normal occurrence.
 
Mar 31, 2012 at 7:56 PM Post #13 of 16
Anyway for example a higher end amp for example, the rsa tomahawk, compared
To the e11 what are the difference in components other than the power output.
For instance i always see this rectangular 8 legged chip which is used in the amp. What issit and what is it used for.

 
Mar 31, 2012 at 9:48 PM Post #14 of 16
Quote:
Anyway for example a higher end amp for example, the rsa tomahawk, compared
To the e11 what are the difference in components other than the power output.
For instance i always see this rectangular 8 legged chip which is used in the amp. What issit and what is it used for.


A lot of more expensive amps aren't higher end in terms of quality of design or performance, just to be clear.  In fact, a lot of audiophile gear, intentionally or not, has lower fidelity driving a load of headphones than something like FiiO E11.  Sometimes lower fidelity in certain ways can sound better though.
 
Those chips are just integrated (electronic) circuits, which can come in a variety of form factors.  It's pretty much a (usually pretty) cheap ready-made circuit of its own, packaged into that form.  It's probably a SOIC-8 or maybe DIP-8 package, where the 8 corresponds to having 8 legs or connections to the outside world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small-outline_integrated_circuit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_inline_package
 
Generally in an audio circuit, it's probably two op amps inside.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Op_amp
 
Scroll down and you can see the component diagram for an ancient u741 op amp, which is a classic that would be terrible for audio purposes.  Most chips used today for audio would be much more complicated than that inside, may use different kind of transistors, and/or have a different kind of layout.  It's just an example for you to look at.  The elements that have circles around them are transistors.  Hopefully you can tell the resistors and capacitors there.
 
Apr 1, 2012 at 12:13 AM Post #15 of 16
An amp makes things louder. If your volume only goes to 10 you'll be able to turn it to 11.

10 = Loud

11 = Louder
 

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